Jason,

I think I get Brady's point, and your counterpoint - that, with the old-style closed portafilter spouts, you can unscrew the spout cover. However, this is what I was referring to - the spout is integrated into the screw path:



And for single spouts, it's just as difficult:



Best,
-s.

Sherman, thanks for the clarification, but I confess to still being somewhat confused . . . with any spouted (i.e.: non-bottomless) portafilter*, there will always be a "bend" to the coffee flow -- even if your two examples, the espresso drops straight down, and is then directed through the spouts at an angle. My single-spouted portafilters (both for the Elektra and the La Valentina) are like this. With the type of double spouts I have, I agree that there is an "extra" turn in the flow of espresso -- straight down through the screw hold/fitting, then a 90-degree angle to the spouts, then another turn as it flows through the spouts (open/closed makes no difference).

I was thinking of the ease of using a brush or pipe cleaner (if necessary) to clean the path of the espresso after a routine maintenance weekly soak in Joe Glo/Caffiza/Puro Caff, etc. An open spout design is easier to get "into" than a closed one (plus, as I said earlier, I find it more aesthetically pleasing). But most of hte time, I find no need -- a "test" with a pipe cleaner comes out clean after the soak.

My old Gaggia portafilter didn't even have a spout -- just two holes in the bottom.

Cheers,
Jason

* With the possible exception of the "straight drop" spout shown in a previous post here.

zin1953 wrote:OK, now I'm really confused . . . are you saying that a closed portafilter spout like this
<image>
is easier to clean than an open one like this?
<image>

Hmmmmm . . . <image>

Yes. I'll explain.

First, sorry all... didn't really mean to derail this so thoroughly. (Also don't quite get how to make your pictures show up in my quote of your post... pretty slick.)

All I meant was if you have the covered style of spout you'd make your life much easier if you made it look like this:


I know on mine I've removed the cover and screw and run it as seen in the picture all the time. The cover and screw went into the junk drawer a couple of years ago. No, espresso doesn't come out of the hole, when the shot pulls correctly it makes the turn and heads down into the cup where it belongs.

Yes, I do think that having the ability to look up into that bend and get straight in with a little scrub brush makes it easier to clean than the La Marzocco style that was designed to be open. That said, I do agree that if you soak them like you should, this sort of scrubbing is unnecessary.

I hope that's less confusing.

Thanks, Brady -- now I get it . . .

Now that we've sufficiently argured about paths through spouts, I guess my question would be why do we even need a spout? In my original post, I said that since I've switched to bottomless, I've never looked back and a major painful part of my cleaning ritual has been removed. Does anyone think that removing the bottom of the pf negatively affects the taste?

Mitch, as we often say around her, "the Search button is your friend . . . "

Why should you use a spouted portafilter? is a 45-post long thread about whether one should (or should not) use spouted portafilters, dating from April of this year. Similar threads on HB predate this one, and there are similar threads over on CG . . .

As with many things in life, it's simply a matter of personal taste and preference.

Cheers,
Jason