Hey everyone,

Still a newbie been lurking for awhile recently picked up an HX machine and a Vario and have been trying my best to learn the ropes, amazing how complicated running hot water through coffee beans can become.

Anyways had an epiphany of sorts tonight, my biggest headache so far has been tweaking a new bag of beans for best results. I find I have been going through half the bag before getting to what i consider pleasant but tonight having 3 different beans with 3 different ages I wanted to experiment. I was using a middle aged bean compared to the other 3 I had and had just run out so decided to take a different approach.

I had recently found what i considered to be the sweet spot as far as grind size goes with my Isomac Rituale and Baratza Vario and some Klatch Belle beans about 2 weeks old, this grind size made a significant enough change to the taste that instead of running in circles I finally just said wow now we are finally getting somewhere and I didn't want to lose that even though I was switching beans so decided to first run through the oldest of my beans some Vivace Vita that were roasted over a month ago but taken out of the freezer just a week ago.

The first shot ran fast but I cut it early and it still tasted decent so instead of grinding finer I decided to increase the dose added .5 sec to the Vario and got a greater quantity of liquid in the cup but taste was similar. I added another .5 sec with similar results. I soon ran out of the Vita so began working with some Redbird Espresso that is about 5 days post roast left the grind the same but I made a pretty dramatic change in dose going from 13 seconds on the Vario down to 10 seconds and using a double basket instead of my LM triple basket.

Even though I made such a significant change the results were still pleasant, I got 2.5 oz in exactly 25 seconds and though the shot was not perfect I instantly knew the shot was a bit bitter because the brew temp was too high. Made another shot with the same setting but flushed a little longer and all of a sudden I am having feelings of nirvana.

Can it really be this easy? find the grind setting your machine/grinder like and just tweak the dose to time the shot appropriately? Seems like no matter the beans if I just tweak the dose now I can get appropraite shots in the 25 second range that all taste good.

Interested to see the changes when I start updosing the Redbird in the triple basket but I just wanted to post to see if I am finally on the right track? Seems like this is all suddenly alot easier sticking to my current grind setting and dosing accordingly to get more/less quantity of liquid in the cup and just watching the shot for blonding to stop rather than weighing the basket with the grind, timing the shot with the stopwatch etc... All of a sudden things seem to have gotten alot easier. Maybe I am just having a good day though and getting lucky here LOL

Did some updosing today and leaving the grind setting alone seems to still be working somewhat. I was at about 15.5g with 10 seconds on the Vario with the Redbird. I added another second to the grind time which took me up to about a 17g dose and a more ristretto shot but I did not like it as much as the lesser dose. I'm still new to this so I prefer the more caramelly traditional coffee increasing the dose just that little bit while leaving the grind the same made a significant change to the flavor. It brought out a much more woody/roast taste that I did not like nearly as much as the caramelly goodness at 15g.

It's starting to seem like though as the coffee ages and loses its flavor just increasing the dose from here instead of changing the grind would be the way to go. Makes sense in my brain anyway increasing the dose increases the strength and flavors I am assuming as the coffee ages it loses strength and flavor so by just increasing the dose in small increments you should be able to keep the flavor profile the same?

Seems like for the first time ever I actually am starting to feel like I am in control of the espresso coming out of the machine and can produce something predictable whereas before if something was wrong it just left me scratching my head wondering why.

Am I making any sense or is this all just a bunch of rambling?

Yes, you are rambling a bit but "It's starting to seem like though as the coffee ages and loses its flavor just increasing the dose from here instead of changing the grind would be the way to go" is something I would agree with, generally. For a long time, I underestimated the importance of dosing accurately, although I wouldn't go as far to state that "by just increasing the dose in small increments you should be able to keep the flavor profile the same". If coffee ages, some flavours are gone forever. I'm talking here about relatively small changes, from (say) 7 g to 7.5 or so for a single. If I have to go to 9 g, the coffee is beyond saving (in my humble opinion).

I wonder if sometimes you hit a sweet spot when adjusting the grinder where the burrs are aligned perfectly and therefore produce very uniform grind...and staying there for as long as possible helps obtain espresso bliss for a while

Even on the Mazzer MiniE I feel there is some sort of play in the burr mechanism... (e.g. I can tighten to zero point, and rotate manually, and hear the burrs touch just at one point... so indicating they are not parallel... if I nudge the adjustment collar a bit, the noise can go away).

Take a look at this thread (which really should be titled "Dose, not Grind").

As coffee ages it take a finer grind so daily adjustment on the grinder is normal. As coffee stales, you can extend its life by grinding coarser and dosing more. You can vary shot timing by dose, but coffees react to dosing changes differently. So at 15 grams you my be getting the best from the coffee but at 17 or 13 grams the quality tanks. To muddy the waters even more, as the coffee ages and the grind shifts the optimal dose may shift as well. To complicate even further, every blend will have a different sweet spot, even the same blend will change from batch to batch due to the age of the greens, changes in the blend composition and small changes in the roast. It can be a bit like chasing your tail but once you get it all figured out you can compensate with little waste.

^ Yep that is where I was for a long time, chasing my tail. The interesting thing though was the initial shot at that grind setting was so much different from anything I had made before. It was actually sweet enough to drink without sugar and I normally put a bunch of sugar in my coffee as I love sweet stuff.

I think a big part of chasing my tail was also due to the fact I was not even a coffee drinker let alone an espresso drinker until recently. It all kind of started with a Tassimo single serve machine and led to a Nespresso and then a Breville and then to an HX in just a couple months time and the espresso is just so strong half the time I have no idea if i'm even tasting bitter or sour.

This grinder setting seems vary forgiving as i'm not really tasting so much bitter or sour now as I am tasting what seems like stronger or weaker espresso and it all taste pretty good I am just not a fan of the really strong stuff yet.

Maybe once I get a bad tasting shot again I will go back to playing with the grind but for now I am leaving it right where it's at and just playing with the dose because I have not experienced this many good shots in a row before and especially when switching beans, that was enough to make me rather have a Nespresso than to try and brew another shot with the HX prior to this point