LeoZ wrote:... the only way to ensure temp stability, after the initial flush, is to keep making shots within 3 minutes or so.

Add a PID.

It's not the same tight window as a claimed by a GS3, but then I'm only a Home-Barista

I can walk up to the Vibiemme anytime all day long [after 1hr warm up] and pull a shot within a degree or so.
Close enough for an NTO [ Not-Terminally-Obsessed ]

And there's plenty of steam for the missus' latte

cafeIKE wrote:Add a PID.

It's not the same tight window as a claimed by a GS3, but then I'm only a Home-Barista

I can walk up to the Vibiemme anytime all day long [after 1hr warm up] and pull a shot within a degree or so.
Close enough for an NTO [ Not-Terminally-Obsessed ]

And there's plenty of steam for the missus' latte

i thought PIDs werent useful on vibe pump e61s? you still have to manually flush, etc. right?

got more info?

LeoZ wrote:i thought PIDs werent useful on vibe pump e61s? you still have to manually flush, etc. right?

got more info?

Depends how obsessed you are and how stable the machine is. I bought the Vibiemme knowing full well I would add a PID, thanks the excellent results Ken Fox got with his PID on the Cimbali Jr. I selected the Vibiemme because it has a very massive group, large boiler and heating capacity, all of which translate to thermal stability.

After adding a PID to the Vibiemme Domobar Super and using Eric's Thermometer Thermocouple adapter, as well as a self-constructed in-basket TC I have brew temps within a degree or so of 199°F.

Recently a fellow H-B'r was over and after he "Wow'd" a shot I'd given him, he exclaimed "Hey! Wait a minute! You're not pulling any cooling flushes!"
Nope

Ian, how come you don't have to pull any cooling flushes? You say the temp is high enough for good steaming power right, so that must mean the HX water is getting to be above boiling if it sits. You mean to tell me that the group is at just the right temperature when idling to cool the overheated HX water just enough to keep everything happy? That's pretty cool...

oofnik wrote:Ian, how come you don't have to pull any cooling flushes? You say the temp is high enough for good steaming power right, so that must mean the HX water is getting to be above boiling if it sits. You mean to tell me that the group is at just the right temperature when idling to cool the overheated HX water just enough to keep everything happy? That's pretty cool...

The boiler is an uncalibrated* 234°F, about .625 bar, also uncalibrated*. The top of the thermosyphon inlet to the group is ~212°F as measured with a K bead probe jammed in nut, the bottom exit about 20°F lower. The group temperature is about 199°F with Eric's thermometer. When pulling a shot, the water temp is about 202°F on Eric's thermometer or about 199°F in the basket.

Weekdays I pull 3 shots at intervals from 10 to 30 minutes. Saturdays, a latte for the missus and then immediately an espresso for moi. Repeat in about 30 minutes. My Saturday espresso is a degree or so cooler than weekdays, but well within the yum zone.

I'd like to point out that the temperature measurements were all made well after PID installation and tuning by taste. I ordered Eric's adapter because it's so cool and to satisfy my curiosity that my taste buds are still in calibration. I'm not yet ready to return them to the manufacturer.

For the most part, I roast my own to 440-448°F, but coffees from Caffe Luxxe, Supreme Bean and Rocky Roaster all fair equally well.

*I've not bothered to calibrate the PID, probes, thermometers and meters as I have many probes of K and T types and several meters, and they all agree within 0.1°F. Someday, I'll use a GPS to get the altitude here, get some distilled water and a precision barometer to calibrate everything so the numbers are exact... Nah, I think I'll just pull another shot

Interesting. I was planning on doing some temp measurements around my Mininova this weekend. If I walk up to the machine after it's been idle for more than a half hour or so, typically I have to flush ~4 to 6 oz to get down to temp. After that it's not so bad, maybe only 2 oz or so in between shots. It's interesting though; the initial flush starts out all steamy and bubbly for the first 5 seconds or so, then the bubbling stops, there's a change in pitch from the pump which I'm assuming correlates with the brew chamber being filled with water. Also, the flow from the screen momentarily slows down to almost none. This is when I start counting down the temp. Does anyone else experience a drop in flow like I do? It's useful, I think, as another indicator of temperature.
I can't get over how cool the E61/HX design is. Maybe it's just the fact that it's been around for forty some years, does precisely what it was engineered to do and does it exceedingly well and looking good while doing it... yeah. Espresso is great.