Can't pull proper 32g double - help w/ diagnosis?

#1: Post by **milosz** » February 25th, 2015, 10:21 pm

Been iced in since my Crossland CC1 and Vario arrived, finally got to pick up some beans and try it out.

Beans were the freshest at Whole Foods - 2 weeks post-roast from a local roaster. Not ideal but should be usable.

Always measured 16.5g in portafilter (as the first was 16.5g and I just stuck with it). Got wildly crazy results at #2-3 on the Vario - full coffee cups, almost.

Moved it down to #1 while grinding (as Baratza says to do with 'macro' changes), then played with letters. Results:
all @26s, 200F, no pre-infusion, no wait
1C - 22g
1T - 69g
1J - 121g
1J - 96.5g
1C - 44g

(I didn't really taste any of these, I was more concerned about actually being able to pull a double)

My first worry is about the grind - if I'm only in the ballpark at 1C, that doesn't leave much room for change with other beans
I assume my tamping was an issue, but I tamped several times on a scale just to get a feel for what ~30 pounds of pressure felt like - with my natural push I was ~34#.

Another flaw in methodology was that my scale only runs to .5g - it's my larger baking scale, but my current .1g scale can't hold a portafilter.

Just as I was getting frustrated and was about to call it a night, I ran out of beans anyway. Thought I'd solicit advice on where to go from here? Any chance the Vario is 'off'?

February 25th, 2015, 11:05 pm

I forgot to add - I didn't calibrate the Vario out of the box because I did hear the change in motor pitch as the settings neared 1A - from ~1F on the sound changed.

#3: Post by **keno** » February 25th, 2015, 11:57 pm

milosz wrote:Beans were the freshest at Whole Foods - 2 weeks post-roast from a local roaster. Not ideal but should be usable.

I'm not familiar with the Vario, so other HBers will have to help you there. But 2 week old coffee is stale in my book and will increase the tendency to pull gushers. The only 2 week old coffee that I've had that was usable (but required quite a bit of tightening up of the grind) was some light Nordic roasted coffee.

Get yourself some fresh coffee less than 5 days post roast and try again, since you are out anyway.

#4: Post by **csepulv** » February 26th, 2015, 12:37 am

milosz wrote:Beans were the freshest at Whole Foods - 2 weeks post-roast from a local roaster. Not ideal but should be usable.
...
My first worry is about the grind - if I'm only in the ballpark at 1C, that doesn't leave much room for change with other beans
I assume my tamping was an issue, but I tamped several times on a scale just to get a feel for what ~30 pounds of pressure felt like - with my natural push I was ~34#.

Another flaw in methodology was that my scale only runs to .5g - it's my larger baking scale, but my current .1g scale can't hold a portafilter.

I wouldn't worry about the tamp weight; you need to tamp evenly, but a light or hard tamp is fine.

I would re-calibrate the Vario. It won't do any harm and 1C doesn't give you room, as you noted. For what it's worth, I am using a Vario in the "2" range.

I would also try to get fresher coffee. I think 2 weeks is getting on the older side (though depends on coffee).

You can weigh just the basket, i.e. no portafilter and then load the basket into the filter, so you can use your 0.1 g scale.

You might also do a light WDT to help fluff grinds and distribute evenly.

#5: Post by **cmin** » February 26th, 2015, 9:40 am

Check calibration, instructions are on Baratzas site. You calibration could be off, but as well as 2 week old coffee is into stale territory for espresso for the most part, and just b/c its a local roaster doesn't mean much as I've had plenty of "local roaster" coffee that well... sucked b/c they didn't know how to roast correctly. So I would calibrate and get/order online fresher coffee to compare, or get directly from that roaster or others if any are around you.

Far as weighing, I single dose so I weigh the beans in the scale tray, then weigh the grinder bin, turn on and dump beans in, re-weigh the bin to make sure dose is there and then dump into my basket. Pry only need to weigh the bin like once or twice to make sure as these grinders have little/zero retention but I just do it out of habit lol. I'm not sure how your weighing, are you just grinding into the PF and trying to weigh, or filling your basket up with beans and grinding that as a dose, can't make out what your doing? You could just pop off the basket and weigh that but if you have beans that fluff (and Vario also makes fluffy grinds) it'll make a mountain above the basket and the CC1 baskets are kinda tight so popping back in may cause grinds to bang out. Need to use .1g scale as your other scale is going to throw off your doses and consistency with its readings. I have a small American Weigh whose tray can hold 16-18g dose which is perfect for me.

#6: Post by **ajf** » February 26th, 2015, 11:34 am

A couple of things that I have found out about the Vario.

1. When adjusting for a finer grind, you need to keep the grinder running even if you are just making a micro adjustment. If you don't, it takes a couple shots before the new setting gives consistent results.
2. As the hopper nears empty, the grind rate changes. In my case, this happens when I have less than about 3 oz beans in the hopper.

Alan

#7: Post by **Espressonia** » February 26th, 2015, 1:12 pm

Not that I have tons of experience with all of this but I just got my Vario and Breville DB 3 weeks ago. I had to recalibrate my Vario right away as I was up to 1d before getting in the right range I cycled my Vario a few times before calibrating (going all the way coarse and up to the motor sound change mine really didn't have a sound change, so I did the cal with the dial at 1m(ish) and tightened it just a bit after I heard the motor change. After that I cycled it back through again ( coarsest-finest) and tried pulling a shot on 2A and was too fine. I have settled out on 2E nd have not played with it much at all since then.

I have also found that there is little to no retention of beans in the Vario if you weigh them before and after grinding, and it is very consistent with its dosing as long as the hopper is 1/3 full.

February 26th, 2015, 5:44 pm

re: weighing - I was weighing the Portafilter, tare, grind to the time I've figured out for a dose, reweigh then adjust if I'm over or under. I'll switch to weighing the basket and then putting it back in the PF.

Going to order some beans online - Avoca didn't have any beans out for sale today that weren't at least a week old.

I went ahead and recalibrated and I definitely hear a difference now - the motor just started changing pitch near 1A, I thought that was what they meant by motor struggling.

#9: Post by **LukeFlynn** » February 26th, 2015, 6:15 pm

Just a note of freshness on coffee - I don't consider 2 weeks stale, don't get me wrong I'd rather have 2 day old coffee than 2 week old coffee but I've had some great espresso from 3 week old Counter Culture Big Trouble/Toscano.

#10: Post by **ajf** » February 26th, 2015, 9:10 pm

If you follow Baratza's instructions for calibrating, the motor should start to change pitch at about 1L to 1M.
That's how I checked mine, and since then I have never needed off macro 2, although I have to change my micro settings between I and O depending on the beans, age, and humidity.

Alan