Hey Keith,
Take heart! What you're going through, 98% of us have or are going through as well. My espresso is just now getting "drinkable" but definitely not worth ooohhhing and aahhhing about!
Out of 20 posts and over 2 days, I've still not seen a response regarding your beans. Fresh roasted? What kind? etc. The freshness of the beans is definitely in the mix of things that are a must. My Macap is a pretty good grinder (although a clumper) but if I put in old, stale beans... what I get in response will never be pleasing.

brokemusician77 wrote:Thanks Gus,

Right now I feel like I'm getting worse, not better. I'm wishing I could take a few steps back and start from there again. Trouble is, I don't know what I was doing then that worked so much better.

Really think that until you resolve the grinder issue that results are going to be inconsistent. I have an extra hand grinder I'd be willing to send for a few days if you want to test the theory.

Beans are also important. Try some from a fast shipper like Caffe Fresco. Their 3 bagger is a good bargain and they have a special shipping option right now. I like their Ambrosia.

brokemusician77 wrote:Right now I feel like I'm getting worse, not better. I'm wishing I could take a few steps back and start from there again. Trouble is, I don't know what I was doing then that worked so much better.

We all go through pear shape periods where nothing seems to work. Concentrate on the basics. With great coffee and consistency in preparation, you're 90% there.

It would be easy to say the single most significant change was buying a quality grinder and developing a relationship with a coffee roaster. But I think there is more to it than that. The single most important thing I did was make a conscious decision to learn how to make great espresso at home.

Along that path I learned that high quality fresh coffee is necessary, a high quality grinder is necessary, a quality pump driven or lever espresso machine is necessary, and finally a boatload of personal experience is necessary. The first three are easy enough. Anybody with money can buy them. The last one is the zinger, it's mostly all on you. Aside from paying for qualified personal training, no amount of money will help a person understand how to make espresso. This must be learned. No amount of money will teach you to be consistent in dose and distribution. Again, this must be learned.

Everybody says you need fresh beans. If you have not used fresh roast dated beans, you will not understand the difference between fresh and stale coffee. When you understand the difference there is no option. Once I started using roast dated beans there was no going back. Now, if I run out of fresh coffee, which is not often, I simply do not attempt to make espresso until I have fresh coffee again. It is that frustrating and unpleasant to use stale coffee to make espresso. It does not matter what quality the grinder and machine are, stale beans just plain suck.

Everybody says you need a high quality grinder. If you have not used a commercial quality espresso grinder you will simply not understand the difference. I had a Infinity, a stepped conical grinder with 4 whole settings in the espresso range. I was switching between 1step too fine up to the next coarse setting while grinding to dial in that perfect timed shot. I could get between 20 and 30 seconds pretty consistently but I was still covering my spro with milk. Getting a 20 or 30 second shot at 1.5 - 2.5 oz does not guarantee success in the cup. Now that I have a quality stepless grinder I would never try to make espresso with anything less.

Everybody says you need a quality machine. Until you understand how different machine dynamics and components will affect the process you will not understand what to look for in a quality machine. I have owned 3 different consumer class, pump driven, espresso machines from 3 different manufacturers at 3 different price points. I can confidently say they were all very different. Spending more did not necessarily equate to a better machine. I had to go through 2 "upgrades" before I made it to a quality entry level machine.

Even after you have fresh coffee beans, a quality grinder, and a good machine it still takes a lot of trial and error to start to understand anything. Keep notes, read tips, try to apply what you read, taste and repeat. Try not to get frustrated there is a lot to take in.

One thing that would really get me stymied was malachi's tip that all you need to do is go by taste. WTF does that mean! My spro tastes awful now what? Now I find it to be one of the most important and profound tips available. I think it means just what it says. Go by taste. If your espresso tastes bad, something is wrong and you should keep practicing until you understand what it is that is wrong and then correct it. As you practice and gain experience your skills will grow, your palate will become more refined and your understanding of the results will develop. When this happens, going by taste will make perfect sense, and will be your primary diagnosis tool.

TheBlacksmith wrote:Out of 20 posts and over 2 days, I've still not seen a response regarding your beans. Fresh roasted? What kind? etc. The freshness of the beans is definitely in the mix of things that are a must.

I'm using the same beans I've tried all along. They're brought in by my local coffee house from Fratello in Calgary. They're a great roaster and the developer of the Slayer machine.

I've posted elsewhere that the beans I get are hit and miss. They order from Fratello every 7-10 days, so depending on when I get there to buy beans, they can either be really fresh , or really stale . The package I get my beans in isn't the original package, and has no roast date on it. (Although Fratello does date all of their bags). I haven't screwed-up the nerve to ask for the roast date when buying beans.

I've been looking around online for a roaster in Canada (49th Parallel, etc.), but in nearly every case the cost of beans + shipping is double what I'm paying now.

I refuse to home roast. I'm OCD enough without having to fuss about that.

brokemusician77 wrote:I've been looking around online for a roaster in Canada (49th Parallel, etc.), but in nearly every case the cost of beans + shipping is double what I'm paying now.

I refuse to home roast. I'm OCD enough without having to fuss about that.

The 3 bagger I referred to earlier is $10 to ship outside of the US right now - I just sent some overseas. Your description of the beans points to a major reason why you are having problems and inconsistencies - but I'm sure you know that already.

Repeating the same routine w/o changing the problem areas obviously is going to achieve the same negative results. I'd at least try a bean source where I knew the roasting date, even if it costs more for one sequence, in order to rule in or rule out that component as the problem.

You could also try Cattle Dog Roasters at http://cattledogcoffeeroasters.embarqspace.com/. They are a very small roastery, but the roaster there, his name is James, claims to be able to ship almost anywhere in like 2 days. He will write right on the package the exact date and time the beans were roasted. I don't know about shipments to Canada, but it's worth calling James and asking about it. Do not ask for 'espresso roast', you will get very dark and oily beans -- tell him you want 'Full City Roast' and if he doesn't know what that means, tell him that that's an internal bean temperature of about 445 degrees.

Thanks folks.

I'm going on tour this weekend, and I'll be passing through a city with a local roaster. I don't know how good he is, but he has a number of different espresso blends, which suggests he knows at least something about it. One in particular is designed to be especially forgiving for new baristas. www.cuppers.ca

I'll pick up about 2-5 lbs on my way home and see where that gets me.

On a side note:

Pulled a shot with some really stale decaf beans this afternoon, and the stream looked really nice, taste wasn't too bad either. I ground right into the PF, didn't weigh, didn't WDT (even though there were huge, hard clumps), tamped the crap out of it (no funny NSEW business). Basket was so overdosed, I could barely lock it in. And yet, it was the closest thing to a good looking shot I've pulled in weeks.

Maybe that should be my new method. Ha ha.

brokemusician77 wrote:Thanks folks.

Maybe that should be my new method. Ha ha.

I'd say whatever works and tastes good to you.

brokemusician77 wrote:I'm using the same beans I've tried all along. They're brought in by my local coffee house from Fratello in Calgary. They're a great roaster and the developer of the Slayer machine.

I've posted elsewhere that the beans I get are hit and miss. They order from Fratello every 7-10 days, so depending on when I get there to buy beans, they can either be really fresh , or really stale . The package I get my beans in isn't the original package, and has no roast date on it. (Although Fratello does date all of their bags). I haven't screwed-up the nerve to ask for the roast date when buying beans.

Try Be'ato Coffee; they sell Fratello Coffee with the roast date on the bag. I've ordered from them three times now and am quite happy with the service.

As for working on your technique, I would suggest you don't change anything. If you make five shots without changing anything and get five different results, then something is changing without you realising it. If you can make five shots and get the same result (regardless of whether the result is good, bad or indifferent) then you can start changing things to evaluate the impact of that change on your result.

Ok. On the way home from touring this weekend, I stopped and picked up 5 lbs of freshly-roasted espresso from Cupper's in Lethbridge. While talking with them about their different blends, I asked,"So, this stuff is all freshly-roasted, right? It hasn't been sitting around here for, like, 10 days or anything." I was overjoyed to receive a speechless look of wide-eyed shock and bewilderment from the employees. They seemed lost for words at the audacity that I would even suggest such a thing. Good sign, right?

As I said, they had three different blends of espresso. One dark roast, and two medium roasts. The girl at the counter was able to intelligently describe the difference to me in terms of body, roast and flavor. I asked for 5 lbs of their house blend, and she even pulled me a shot, so I could try it out. The shot was nothing to rave about. I think she just used the grounds left over in the doser, and I'm sure she didn't perform a cooling flush. The shot was a little bitter, bland, and it burned my palate, right off the start. Although, once I got to the bottom of the cup, there was a nice mix of flavors that came through. A bit of sweetness, and some nice fruity flavors.

The coffee was divided into 5 re-sealable bags with those little valves on them. Upon my arrival home, I promptly deposited 4 lbs into the deep freeze (taped the valves, and placed all 4 bags into another bag for added protection).

Tomorrow, I plan to use a pound of beans working on my shots. As advised, I'll pull about 5 in a row without consciously changing anything, to see if I get consistent results.

I'll post again tomorrow with the results.

The coffee maybe too fresh. When trying a new coffee, get enough, which you have, so that you can try it from days 4 to at least 14.

I think it's ok. I picked it up Monday, and they said they don't roast on weekends. So, it was either roasted yesterday or late last week.

If it was roasted Monday, how will that affect the beans I froze? Will they need a few days after thawing?

Was going to pull 5 shots back to back, but after four shots, I decided I didn't need the fifth.

The results:

Shot 1: 2oz.- 20 sec.- dry puck
Shot 2: 2oz.- 19 sec.- dry puck
Shot 3: 2oz.- 23 sec.- dry puck (I realized afterward that I did an extra little polish, which accounted for the longer time)

Shot 4: 2oz.- 19 sec.- dry puck

So, I conclude that my previous problems weren't with technique or grinder but with the beans. (Hmmm, why didn't anyone suggest that? )

The shots were a little bitter and sour. Almost ashy tasting. The one at 23 sec. was drinkable straight, although I didn't get any of that blueberry, roast chicken, caramel, 7-up, strawberry explosion with a buttery mouth feel, some of you describe. Ha ha.

I'll try a finer grind setting, and see what I get.

Thanks for all your help.

k

Roast chicken???

You're certainly on the right track. Sourcing better coffee is one of the single most cost effective and dramatic ways to improve your espresso. One thing I would say is the coffee I am using was roasted on 3/12/09 it says so on the bag. I received it on 3/14/09. What I am currently using has been in the freezer in a mason jar since 3/14 until just last night. My point is that while the employee's response is a good indicator, a date on the bag removes any question.

My current coffee on day 2 when I receive it is generally too fresh for my taste. I get the same ashen taste you describe and the cup is unbalanced. After another day or so it mellows out and develops nicely over the next 2 or 3 days. In the end what I am using is 3 to 5 days out of the roaster, or 2 days post roast, plus freezer time.

I speak with my roaster each time I place an order. I'm not custom ordering anything I just order his house blend. When I placed my first order I took HB advice in tow, and spoke with him about how they were pulling the coffee in the shop. What dose, what volume, what temp, traditional, ristretto, and from this I got several tips on what to try at home. He is pulling on a GB5, I am using a Classic, so I will obviously have a different result, but I knew when I got it where to start.

If the shop is that hip to their quality they should be able to give you the roast date and also some points on how they are pulling the coffee. However since you didn't seem to particularly like the shot you were served maybe a different barista or a call back to the shop for some details.

Dry puck.
Dry puck.
Dry puck.
Dry puck.

Try not tamping, just letting the tamper rest on top of the coffee in the basket, so that the tamping force = the weight of the tamper. And dose so that after the "tamp", you have about 6mm of headspace in the basket.
Flick on-switch for three or four seconds. Turn it off. Count to 5. Then turn it on again and extract as usual. Is the puck still dry?

Hmmm.... I'll try it. Why do you suggest this?

I only mention the dry pucks to say that my technique and equipment seems to be relatively consistent.

Well, it was a little wet for a few seconds, as I pulled the PF out of the machine, but was still fairly dry.

brokemusician77 wrote:Hmmm.... I'll try it. Why do you suggest this?

I only mention the dry pucks to say that my technique and equipment seems to be relatively consistent.

Principle: only when you have understood the machine's "peripheries" can you begin to "dial in". Make crude changes at first, and then refine.

During the extraction, the coffee bed gets saturated with water, which causes the particles to swell and the bed to get denser, and then water gets pushed through the coffee bed. In machines without preinfusion, you can sometimes help things along by running the pump for a couple of seconds, stopping, and then restarting.

Is it possible to end up with a "soupy" puck on your machine, despite the solenoid? Can you lower the dose by a few grams, and grind a little more finely, and see what happens? Again, no tamp, just the weight of the tamper. No pressing down on the tamper. Trying to map a periphery.