Am I missing anything here?
When checked using the styrofoam cup method my brewing temperature was consistently 160F.
If I:
1-turn on the steam switch and until the light indicates machine is ready to steam
2-press the brew switch (turn on pump) for about 3 secs and let water/steam out
3-then check the temp (turn on pump with styro cup and thermometer under brew head)
I get a steady 190F brew temp.

So I've been pulling my shots using this method by attaching PF at step 3. They taste MUCH better.
Styro cup has holes cut around bottom sides so the water can't pool. Am assuming water temp would be slightly higher at brew head and would hopefully be in the 195 to 205F range when running directly into the PF. Machine is single boiler vibro pump.
Sound right to you? Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice.

And it would help if you said I have a XYZ brand machine, model ABC. But, from what you have described, you might want to also let the machine warm-up for an hour (possibly less) with the portafilter in place.

Keep in mind also that different beans react differently to temperature. Some blends are particularly good at a specific temperature and others are less so. VERY GENERALLY speaking, 200 F is a reasonable temperature of water as presented to the coffee.

With the styro cup you can expect a 8 to 12 deg F drop just going from the spouts, through the air, and into the cup VS what the puck surface will see when brewing.

So you can factor that in kinda.

-Cecil

erics wrote:And it would help if you said I have a XYZ brand machine, model ABC. But, from what you have described, you might want to also let the machine warm-up for an hour (possibly less) with the portafilter in place.

It's a Saeco Aroma I let it warm up for half an hour to an hour as well as running hot water through the PF before I start.

CRCasey wrote:With the styro cup you can expect a 8 to 12 deg F drop just going from the spouts, through the air, and into the cup VS what the puck surface will see when brewing.

Yeah that's what I wanted to confirm. Sorry, but can you clarify "going from the spouts". Do you mean the brewhead(maybe that's not what it's called?) or PF spouts? I was measuring directly from the brewhead into the styro cup If that is what you mean then I guess it should be just about right. 190+8 to +12=198 to 202 F. This is good but having to bring the boiler up to steaming temp to achieve this just didn't sit right. Had me second guessing. Maybe Aroma's are just like this?

Keep adding money to the sock in my drawer for a Quickmill Alexia. In the meantime will try to learn to wring everything possible out of the Aroma.
Thanks

Plusx,

I wanted to thank you for posting this. I, too, (kicks himself) own a Saeco Aroma and have been to trying to temp surf with it. I noticed a substantial improvement in the quality of my shots when I pulled them immediately after I steamed milk, and you confirmed that this circumstance was not just a "fluke."

Not to "piggy-back" on this thread, but I'm curious... Does the shower screen on your group head distribute water unevenly? When I run it without a PF I get streams of water in random places, often concentrated on the left side, and the occasional burst of steam. Here's a youtube video of this (although my issue is not this drastic):



Is this normal? Does your machine run the same way?

Craig

I've been experimenting with pre-heating the reservoir water (see here: Any harm from pre-heating reservoir water?) which has been a lot more consistent for me then trying to temp surf. And I haven't seen any detrimental effects on the machine (yet).

FWIW, just this morning, I was trying to calibrate a PID on Silvia and was measuring the temperature in the brewhead vs boiler. I have a naked portafilter with a styrofoam cutout cup and pretty accurate digital thermometer.


The distance from the cup's bottom to the brew head was ~1 inch. On a cold machine, with the boiler just reaching its target temperature of 222F, it was 160F (!!) in the cup. After warming up for about 30 minutes and pulling a couple of shots, it was in the upper 190s. Measuring steam temp in the cup, it was about 204-7F, so there is about 5-8F loss going between the dispersion screen and cup's bottom. All in all, in my case, it's about 20 degree drop between boiler and coffee grounds when machine is warmed up.

cherbhy wrote:Plusx,
Not to "piggy-back" on this thread, but I'm curious... Does the shower screen on your group head distribute water unevenly? Is this normal? Does your machine run the same way?
Craig

No please "piggy-back", I would love to see a dedicated Aroma/Classico thread. My shower screen distribution isn't exactly even, but no it does not 'squirt' out the center under pressure like in the video you posted. That I imagine would immediately chew a hole through the puck. I have no advice except maybe remove the screen and see if it is something obvious causing pressure in one spot.

TrlstanC wrote:I've been experimenting with pre-heating the reservoir water (see here: Any harm from pre-heating reservoir water?) which has been a lot more consistent for me then trying to temp surf. And I haven't seen any detrimental effects on the machine (yet).

Interesting! My water temperature does stay even throughout a thirty second shot so it isn't an issue for me but I also turn on the pump and let steam/water run out until the steam light goes out (approx 3 secs). Then I immediately stick the PF on and pull the shot BEFORE the steam light comes back on. This keeps the element on throughout the shot.

asdf777 wrote:Measuring steam temp in the cup, it was about 204-7F, so there is about 5-8F loss going between the dispersion screen and cup's bottom. All in all, in my case, it's about 20 degree drop between boiler and coffee grounds when machine is warmed up.

Thanks asdf777, that helps confirm temperature drop numbers.

Brian,

You didn't mention how long you allow the machine to warm up before use.

I have worked with an older Starbucks Barista (which is really a Saeco Aroma) that will get above brewing temperatures without even touching the steam switch. (The water flash boils as it exits the grouphead). This only happens, however, when the machine has been on for a while, maybe 15-30 minutes.

Another tip with these small single boiler machines is to run some water through the steam wand. This ensures that the boiler is as full of water as possible. The steam wand is connected to the top of the boiler. During steaming, there is steam / airspace at the top of the boiler. Drawing water from the wand "burps" the boiler, replacing airspace with water. The user manual calls this priming the boiler.

Ryan

+1
I was gonna mention that as well. I found my Barista [aka- Aroma] tested on the styro cup to be pretty hot without running it [surfing] via steam wand. Approx. 202*F if I hit it to brew on the first light "on" [Note: with Barista, light on means the boiler has stop boiling...I think it is reverse with Aroma??]

Anyway, in genreal I can get use to using my Barista..but it has some limitations....afterall we are only dealing with approx. 6oz of brewed water on the so-called boiler. [BTW, do you guys ever open up the machine and see>>>not whole lot of parts inside]. Steaming milk is still very challenging...very wet steam coming out.

Oh, just this morning, I pulled a very decent shot with Klatch's WBE beans on my Barista. I actually waited 15seconds after the light turned on before I hit the buttom. OP Good luck playing with yours.