CyclingCraig wrote:Dry coffee: 14.5g
Espresso: 30.4g
Brew Ratio: 48%
Shot Volume (incl Crema): 35ml
Total Shot duration: 24 seconds (including about 6 seconds for drops to form on bottom of PF).

There was some blonding right at the end of the shot, but overall the taste was pretty good, one of my average pulls.

Shot volume was low right? but the BR indicates about a standard double right?

What do you guys think?

14g should yield a double, say 50++ ml.

It could it be that the shot was overextracted with a higher ratio of solids making their way into the cup. You might try doing everything the same but give your machine a dramatically longer cooling flush and see what happens.

Regards
Timo

P.S. And/or you could try a coarser grind/heavier tamp.

I find that the Quickmill Vetrano with a LM ridgeless likes 15g of coffee. That just gets the screen during the pull - 15.5 is the top; beyond that you hit on lock-in and/or get nasty channeling and/or choking.

If you dose into a cup and vigorously fluff (e.g. with a chopstick), then pour into the basket and level NSEW, you get an almost exactly full basket (no tapping, etc) with this dose - within 0.2g repeatedly.

I assume the Anita would be the same since the group is identical. I had all sorts of trouble with the stock QM basket due to the ridge; it would hang up on the tamper and result in a defective tamp, which made it truly hellish to get a decently consistent puck. The LM ridgeless baskets fixed that.

I'm getting reasonably consistent pulls this way. Not in "godshot" territory (by my standards anyway) but darn delicious. Still working on nailing the consistency side of my technique.....

I am still using the stock QM filter basket and I JUST yesterday changed to a RegBarber Convex tamper. (Bottomless PF) Thought the convex tamper would better match the shape of the dispersion screen on the Anita

I have NO binding issues with the new RB or my previous tamper(Delux Lava) with the stock QM filter basket

If you dose into a cup and vigorously fluff (e.g. with a chopstick), then pour into the basket and level NSEW, you get an almost exactly full basket (no tapping, etc) with this dose - within 0.2g repeatedly.

I do the "fluff" with an un-bent paper clip in the PF (WDT style), but get what seems to me, VERY similar results as you describe above

This mornings numbers:
Gound Coffee: 14.6g
Espresso: 37g
Brew Ratio: 40%
Total Vol (Approx): 47 ml (Incl Crema)
Total Shot time: 28s

Yesterdays shot was better than todays, I had some channeling and blonding today, but it was "OK". Didn't have time this morning for my second, had to run to work

I do find that after I remove the PF after pulling the shot. the puck is still a bit wet, and if it touched the screen during expansion, when I un-twist the PF the top of the puck gets all messed up and leaves grounds on the dipersion screen. Is this normal?

If I use 15g it seems like a *little* too much and the puck touches the dispersion screen during expansion and the puck gets messed up? Who the heck really knows though I am still a newbie

as a point of reference, i weighed plain water in a shot glass, using balance scale.

empty shot glass = 66.8g
with 0.5oz of water = 82.1g, water alone is 15.3g
with 1oz of water = 95.3g, water alone is 28.5g
with 1.5oz of water = 111.7g, water alone is 44.9

giving that the lines on the shot glass is not super accurate, i average them out, so a 0.5oz of plain water should be around 14.8g

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my thought is about "gross volume including crema": isn't it easier to measure gross volume after the guinness effect has settled. my experiment in my "fresh, spouted, 100% washed arabica, and rotary pump set up" found that crema is slowly reducing right after the shot is finished, so i don't know when to measure the volume. so i thought it might be more precise to measure the volume by the pure liquid, or after a certain amount of seconds after the shot is done.

BTW, i ended up with 14.8g coffee, 2oz w/ crema at shot cut-off (1.4oz gross w/out crema), and 42.6g gross beverage grams. should it be a med-low dose and pretty large double regular, or a med-low double lungo (by weight); or med regular double (by volume)? i'm kinda confuse when taking my numbers to compare to the chart.

please help. many thanks.

Another latecomer... I've noticed that the vast majority of my shots fall in the 40 to 50% range, even those I would normally consider tight ristrettos by volume/time barely make it past 50-53%.

This leads me to believe that whilst a lot of people might think they are drinking ristretto-type drinks, by the BR definition they might well not be. That would make for an interesting survey, particularly as some coffees are best as ristrettos.... ristretto by BR or by volume...? How does the taste differ?

AndyS wrote:The brewing ratio concept in itself does nothing to improve your shotmaking (only your own experimentation and tasting can do that)

If my 35ml (inc. crema) 'ristretto-by-volume' shots are coming out with a 'normale' brew ratio, doesn't that imply that my coffee is being over-extracted - i.e. the shot is significantly 'heavier' than it ought to be? Wouldn't trying to bring your shot volume and shot brew ratio into alignment itself be a way (but not necessarily a better way) of quickly improving your shots as opposed to iteratively by taste?

If I've misunderstood something, or you can clarify, or you just want to tell me to be quiet.... please let me know!

Thanks,
Dave

DC wrote:Wouldn't trying to bring your shot volume and shot brew ratio into alignment itself be a way (but not necessarily a better way) of quickly improving your shots as opposed to iteratively by taste?

Sure, you can use the brew ratio to try different things.

So you want something in a ristretto range?.... you need to either increase your dose weight, or decrease the final shot weight, or both, to do that. In either case, grind finer and see where you can get. Also, if you only have the Rancilio double basket, you may be limited in how much you will be able to increase your current dose.

Andy, this may be implied, at least I thought it was, but I wonder if you can clear something up?

I assume that the brew ratio measure is useful only to describe shots that are allowed to run to completion (ie. shots that pull to the point of blonding). Is this assumption correct?

For example, if I load my triple basket with 20gm, place my scale on the drip tray, and stop the shot when 1gm of espresso has poured into my cup (regardless of what the pour looks like or is doing), have I pulled a shot with a 20:1 brew ratio? I would think not.

Mark

Dogshot wrote:I assume that the brew ratio measure is useful only to describe shots that are allowed to run to completion (ie. shots that pull to the point of blonding). Is this assumption correct?

For example, if I load my triple basket with 20gm, place my scale on the drip tray, and stop the shot when 1gm of espresso has poured into my cup (regardless of what the pour looks like or is doing), have I pulled a shot with a 20:1 brew ratio? I would think not.

As far as I can see, the "point of blonding" is fairly subjective and a matter of personal taste.

The example you give, at a 20:1 brew ratio, would be so intensely acrid that it's undrinkable for most people. But the brewing ratio concept is still helpful, I think, in putting such a shot in perspective. You can easily see how out-of-whack 20:1 is compared to the usual continuum of decent coffee -- from about 1.4:1 for an ultra ristretto to about 1:20 for drip coffee.

I'm newbie for espresso at this level. I find that brew ratio and chart a good point to start and experiment with.
I called this experiment.. my first results are like that.
With 16 gr. coffee grain (standard Illy beans) with 30 lbs tamping after finger sweep, try to pull double and the result is 39 gr beverage at 27 sec. As seen on picture 01.jpg. It tastes something I'm looking for, but not very very best.



My second try again with 16 gr. coffee grain (standard Illy beans) with 30 lbs tamping after finger sweep, try to pull double and the result is 50 gr beverage at 20 sec. The result can be seen on picture 02.jpg. It tastes not very good. Acidic. what is the difference between my two shots. Which variables effecting the situation?

ozzyymclaren wrote: what is the difference between my two shots. Which variables effecting the situation?

The grind was the same? It sounds like the second shot experienced serious channeling, meaning the water poured way too fast through cracks in the coffee cake.