Ok, humor me, I have been wondering about portafilters, and how they might (?) alter and affect extractions.
Sometimes a bottomless PF, if everything is not perfect, will dribble and then pour in more than one little stream, and not evenly from the entire bottom of the PF, which is not really desirable. If one gets a little probe, and touches the streams you can bring them together to form a nice single stream and more even "pulling" from all around the PF bottom, rather than just a couple areas. When using a spouted PF, you can't see whether the extraction is coming out in one nice stream for several. However, I wonder if the shape of a spouted PF, allows enough fluid to "back up " slightly, and pull any potenial mulitiple streams into one single, more even extraction, thus in effect, making a better pull from the entire surface area of the basket bottom.

I'm not suggesting this as a remedy or crutch, just wondering about the dynamics. What do you think?

It's an interesting observation about being able to fix the stream on a naked PF. I've never heard that before.

But does it alter the stream out of the puck, or just off the meshed bottom of the basket? If it's just the second, then I can't see it making any difference in the taste.

David,

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would make a difference in taste.

The stream you are "joining" is joining on the bottom of the puck, after it goes through the coffee (already extracted) so I don't see how it would have an effect on taste.

Theoretically, wouldn't it be better to have a 1000 tiny streams coming down uniformly across the whole puck, rather than 1 large stream in the middle (the many small streams assuming no channeling would mean a very even extraction.. think like a shower head).

another_jim wrote:But does it alter the stream out of the puck, or just off the meshed bottom of the basket? If it's just the second, then I can't see it making any difference in the taste.

I've tried this before on shots with poor distribution. It's simple to join the streams, but I get the feeling it's mainly flowing together on the outside of the PF, rather than through the puck. I could be wrong, though.

Yes, thats true. Joining the streams on the bottom of the basket is just going to make it look prettier, not affect taste, IMO.

BUT.. I do believe, given everything is done correctly, that using a bottomless PF and using a Spouted PF will give you a slightly different shot. The crema is a little different, as is the mouthfeel. I really love my single spout PF, but its messy to use. Meaning, post-shot PF-wiggling leaves water in the PF, which in turn drips all over my work area/floor when moving the PF. Makes me use it a lot less then Id like. but Ive grown accustomed to using my bottomless almost exclusively... Its just what I use.

I've definitely noticed that crema from my bottomless PF is somewhat more bubbly, and I've read this on HB as well. It's not really a big deal. I've tried using my single spout PF a few times, but I'm always annoyed by not being able to monitor the extraction for problems. This is much less of a problem with my new K10, but I still prefer bottomless

FWIW, I don't find the crema "more bubbly" -- as in larger bubbles or more effervescent -- but rather that there is more of it. That said, the "extra" also dissapates more quickly. Thus, if (e.g.) I'm pulling a double shot into a demitasse, either the cup overflows before blonding starts, or I stop the shot early (but within the cup), and by the time I put the cup on a saucer, remove the pf and knock out the grounds, it looks like someone has already consumed one-third of my espresso . . .

Cheers,
Jason

Jason, I have the same thing going on with my shots. Happens almost everytime, regardless of the age of the coffee, using the bottomless PF. Since Im normally pulling tight ristrettos, I notice it quite often.

godlyone wrote:Theoretically, wouldn't it be better to have a 1000 tiny streams coming down uniformly across the whole puck, rather than 1 large stream in the middle (the many small streams assuming no channeling would mean a very even extraction.. think like a shower head).

From a surface area perspective, no. More exposed surface area to oxidize and cool would be a Bad Thing, IMO.

JmanEspresso wrote:Happens almost everytime, regardless of the age of the coffee, using the bottomless PF.

This is why, for me, a bottomless portafilter remains a tool, not the "standard." I use it as a check on my "regular" pulls . . . or if my other portafilters are dirty/being used, or if I'm "showing off" for a visiting friend (espresso porn).

Cheers,
Jason