HI;

I reviewed the Photos of Common Espresso Problems I believe that I'm seeing a tiny amount of channeling on my Bezzera. Mainly in one spot in the back is getting a tiny pin hole size "leak" that sprays some coffee. I have not noticed this happening in other positions (perhaps I am missing it), only in the back (i.e. position on the basket the opposite side of where the handle attaches).

I don't see this on all shots. However, I have not bee able to figure out exactly what I have done right vs wrong when the channeling happened vs doesn't. I am using the bottomless portafilter with the triple basket and dosing about 16 grams of coffee. It is ground to pull right about 25 seconds for about 20 ounces.

I tried switching from the triple basket to a 14 gram basket that someone here suggested I buy. It is tapered and the bottom screen is smaller than on the triple, but not as tapered or as small of a bottom as the factory filter. The couple test shots on this basket ran too fast and had channeling. Also the tamper only fits into the top part of this basket due to it being tapered. I did not attempt to adjust the grind to adjust for this basket, but I can if that is suggested.

I rather like the triple basket and how the tamper fits in it, but am unsure if the triple basket is causing a problem, i.e. Should I be using a higher dose than 16 grams in the triple basket, and if so, how long do I am for and how much do I pull, 3 oz?

This isn't a huge issue as most shots are turning out pretty decent, at least by my standards. However I'd like to figure out what is causing the channeling and fix it if I can.

My tamps are very firm, and too heavy if anything, not to light.

Any suggestions are welcome. Thank You.

Using Mazzer Mini E grinder.

Thanks
Jamie

p.s. I have used 2 different coffee beans so far, one was a "medium" roast from 1st line (was closer to city+ / Vienna) and a roast from a local shop that was around a full city roast, about 10 days old now.

Is your tamper fitting nicely in your new basket too? It should'nt have change much.

16g in a triple basket is consider a downdose and you might consider dosing to about 21g, but it depends which type of triple you have. According to Jim, the Bezzera doesn't like a dose higher than 16g in a double.

When you switch to a smaller basket, did you try to grind finer enough? If it's gushing midway threw the shot, it's probably not fine enough.

It might also be your distribution technique, but then, it's hard to say..

Marc wrote:It might also be your distribution technique, but then, it's hard to say..

I'll go setup my video camera and shoot a quick video of what I am doing and how the shot looks.

Jamie

That would be helpful. The Bezzera I have used had a very low dispersion block. You had to dose lower than your typical E61 machine. If you are using a triple basket, depending on the blend, I would guess around 18 grams would be where you want to start at in your typical 21 gram basket.

cannonfodder wrote:I would guess around 18 grams would be where you want to start at in your typical 21 gram basket.

HI;

I didn't see your message until after I made the video. I will try again and go down to 18 gram. Sorry it took so long to respond, my upload speed is only 1/2 a meg and takes a long time on videos.

In this video, I show the baskets I have, I also show how the tamper fits in them. I then grind and tamp 21 grams of coffee into the triple basket. When this shot pulls, I don't think there was any channeling (some splatter, but didn't appear to be channeling), however, I had some leaking from the top of the basket. I took another video of a second shot, and had it a little tighter and didn't have any leaking.



In this video, I pull another 21 gram shot, and take a close up shot, this time, I lock it in a bit tighter and do not see a problem with leaking or channeling. The shot takes about 36 seconds to pull for around 2.5 ounces which sounds reasonable.



I drank the shot, and it was reasonable, not great, was a little bitter.

Thank You,

Jamie

p.s. A short video showing frothing on the Bezzera, not sure I did the best job with this frothing, but the milk tasted fine.

The leaking in the first shot is probably because the machine can't take the 21g(like Cannonfodder said). It's harder to get a good shot when you push the limits of your machine, you should'nt need to lock your portafilter more than you did.

Try again at lower dose and tighter grind, the shot should improve

Steaming: It seems like you didn't stretch the milk, did it had enough foam? At the beginning you should hear a bit of splurting like in this video (look at 48sec and 2min10):

Couple of notes.

- When you tamp, you are nuttating with way too much pressure it would seem from that video. Your portafilter is wiggling all over the place, I suspect there is no good seal between the puck and basket. Stop doing that and instead just tamp straight down with 30 pounds of pressure or whatever pressure you can do consistently. Naked portafilter can go directly on the counter-top no need for towel.

- Grind finer, that flows too fast. See my article to get into the range with grind fineness: Digital espresso or a way to consistency

- On your second video there is definitely channeling in the back of portafilter, side which is close to the machine. You can see that cone is uneven and that back side went white and watery. With 21 grams of coffee you should definitely not see that. It's lot of coffee. Make sure your distribution is right and see my first point as well.

- It seems like you are not flushing enough. Water was still dancing and hissing in first video so that might cause your bitter shots. Try flushing until dance and hissing stops.

Hope this helps. Soon you'll be making killer espresso just keep at it and don't let it intimidate you. Good luck!

tekomino wrote:Stop doing that and instead just tamp straight down with 30 pounds of pressure or whatever pressure you can do consistently. Naked portafilter can go directly on the counter-top no need for towel.

Done.

tekomino wrote:Grind finer, that flows too fast. See my article to get into the range with grind fineness:

Done.

tekomino wrote:Try flushing until dance and hissing stops.

Done.

Marc wrote:The leaking in the first shot is probably because the machine can't take the 21g(like Cannonfodder said).

I moved down to 18 grams, than down to 16 grams and adjusted the grind. I'm finding good results with 16 grams now, I don't see any channeling.

However, I saw some of that leaking again on the outside of the filter. It wasn't coffee, it was just clear water. To avoid this leak, I seem to really have to turn it pretty firmly, harder than it seems like I should have to. Is this normal?

Other than the leak, at the finer grind, and lower dose with the other suggested adjustment, I seem to be getting better results. I'll pull a few more shots this evening and will have a better idea as to if I continue to get consistent results.

Marc wrote:Steaming: It seems like you didn't stretch the milk, did it had enough foam? At the beginning you should hear a bit of splurting like in this video

Thanks, I've steamed milk a few more times today and I think I am doing a little better.

Thank You

Jamie

jamiedolan wrote:However, I saw some of that leaking again on the outside of the filter. It wasn't coffee, it was just clear water. To avoid this leak, I seem to really have to turn it pretty firmly, harder than it seems like I should have to. Is this normal?

No.

Remove the gasket and screen. Clear off any collected funk and reinstall.

Things to improve :

• Is your scale 0.1g?
• How long had the grinder sat before the shot? Anything more than about 15 minutes requires a 1 to 2s purge to clear out stale coffee.
• Distribute the coffee with a gentle side to side shake before tamping. It should be nearly level before tamping.
• Tamping pressure is largely irrelevant. Lighter is easier. Be consistent.
• Wipe the rim of the basket after tamping with your hand to clear any loose coffee.
• Don't hit the PF on the counter a couple of times before you lock it in.
• Lock the PF and pull, don't bake the coffee on the group while you futz about.
• Forget about the stopwatch. About 60ml in about 30s. That shot was a sinker from the start.
• Use a group brush to clean the gasket after each pull.
• Use the water wand to heat the cup, not HX water unless it's part of your flush. Be consistent.

cafeIKE wrote:Is your scale 0.1g?

No, only a gram scale. Is it important to be able to measure to the 10th of a gram?

cafeIKE wrote:How long had the grinder sat before the shot? Anything more than about 15 minutes requires a 1 to 2s purge to clear out stale coffee.

I do normally purge it if I am not making one shot after another.

cafeIKE wrote:# Distribute the coffee with a gentle side to side shake before tamping. It should be nearly level before tamping.
# Tamping pressure is largely irrelevant. Lighter is easier. Be consistent.

Okay, thanks. I've been doing this today.

cafeIKE wrote:Lock the PF and pull, don't bake the coffee on the group while you futz about.

I'm normally ready and pull right away.

cafeIKE wrote:# Use a group brush to clean the gasket after each pull.
# Use the water wand to heat the cup, not HX water unless it's part of your flush. Be consistent.

I do use the water wand to heat the cup. I haven't been cleaning it with a brush that often, just running water and wiping it off with a rag. I'll start using the brush.

I've been adjusting the grind today and dosing at 16 grams. I think I am close to having it right, it seemed to change since yesterday, the beans were fresh, less than 24 hours old yesterday. I'm thinking this might have been the reason it seemed a bit off / different since yesterday.

Today, my pucks have seemed to come out on the wet side. Where the first couple days I was using the machine, the pucks seemed to be coming out much more dry.

Could the beans be making much difference? The first 2 pounds were ordered and I am not sure how old they were, I think they were fairly fresh. The next pound was from a local shop about 10 days old. The next pound, that I am currently on, is one I roasted 2 nights ago.

Do you think I am causing myself additional frustration jumping around with different beans? Should I just roast up 3 pounds of one of the SM espresso blends and use that? At the current rate, 3 pounds will be used in a week.

Thank You;

Jamie