Better Espresso thru Freezing - Page 3

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
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Worldman
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#21: Post by Worldman »

Are you guys saying that there is NO difference between the taste of espreso made from fresh roasted (de-gassed) beans and just thawed frozen beans?

Len
Len's Espresso Blend

DavidMLewis
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#22: Post by DavidMLewis »

To the limits of my ability to taste, that is correct.

Best,
David

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Worldman
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#23: Post by Worldman »

Jason said: If one orders one pound of coffee, the package itself weighs more than one pound, as you have the weight of the cardboard box, the single sheet of paper upon which the invoice is printed, the tape used to seal the package -- trivial, perhaps, but remember that you're not paying the one pound rate. Let's add four ounces to account for that "extra."

If you go to the USPS Postage Rate Calculator, select "Package" and "1 pound, 4 ounces" and "Priority Mail" (not "Flat Rate Box") you'll see that the online price is $6.67 postage for a domestic shipment, or $7.10 if you pay for postage at the post office. At 2 pounds 4 ounces, the rate is $8.15 online/$9.05 at the post office -- making the per pound rate $4.08/$4.53, respectively for two pounds of coffee. At 3 pounds, 4 ounces, the rates are $9.78/$10.80 -- or $3.26/$3.60 per pound, roughly half the rate when shipping a single pound. At 5 pounds, 6 ounces, it's $13.34/$14.65, or $2.67/$2.93 per pound.
Let me mention that my lowly and under-performing company: Len's Espresso Blends, shipping page shows shipping as:
We ship by your choice of FedEx 2 to 4 day service - OR - by US Priority Mail. Shipping cost in $8 for 1 pound of coffee or $11 for 2 pounds of coffee for FedEx or $4.75 for 1 pound of coffee or $7.80 for 2 pounds of coffee for Priority Mail.
Hey! That's "only" $3.90 a pound for a 2# shipment by Priority Mail and you needn't buy so much coffee at a time.

We do this for any location in the lower 48 states sometimes making a couple of cents on shipping but much more frequently losing money.

Len
Len's Espresso Blend

IMAWriter
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#24: Post by IMAWriter »

another_jim wrote:Finally, some coffees are just plain jittery, like Yemens, showing arbitrary and sometimes bizarre or unrepeatable tastes on any day from roasting to three weeks out.
As I've noticed all too well. My one experience freezing was not so good, bu mea culpa, I believe.
The freezer uis a real one, not attached to the fridge, but I believe not vacuum sealing the mason jars ruined the experiment.
The coffee was OK, but was flatter than that which I drank during it's peak period.
I might try again, but with some sort of vacuum seal device.

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shadowfax
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#25: Post by shadowfax »

IMAWriter wrote:I might try again, but with some sort of vacuum seal device.
This one is about $30 total, pretty compact, and pretty cool. the one mod that I did to it was that I got a food saver hose--the brake bleeding hose requires you to hold it against the Food Saver attachment, which is a bit of a PITA, whereas the food saver hose fits perfectly... you have to cut one end of it to fit it on the brake bleeding pump, though.

Anyway, I've used it with negative pressure from 15-25 inHg, and it seems to work extremely well. I've settled on 15 inHg, as it seems to get the same results with less pumping and less trouble getting the lids off. I was a little concerned about the negative pressure drawing gas from the bean at an unnatural rate and causing negative/unusual effects on aging, I haven't noticed that to be the case, and can also confirm that they outgas like regular beans after freezing--if you relieve the vacuum. My typical practice is to take a jar out a few days before I want to start using it (I typically freeze before they hit prime, just a habit), and I let it come to room temperature over a few hours before relieving the vacuum on the jar and resealing. The next day, the jar is always under some degree of positive pressure from outgassing, and I end relieve the pressure on all my jars that are out so they can continue that process. Note this doesn't require removing the lid, just loosening it a quarter turn or so.

Anyway, sorry for rambling; I think this has been mentioned before, but I can't find the link.
Nicholas Lundgaard

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#26: Post by IMAWriter »

Thanks, Nicholas.
I tried storing beans in those 1 qt plastic containers with the pump lid, but i found the coffee aged prematurely.
Even light full city (no oil at roast), maybe a snap or 3 of 2nd showed oil after 3-4 days, unlike my 1 way valved bags. That discussion is also chronicled here and CG numerous times.

I'd be freezing home roasted as Ken Fox described.
I'll re-read his opening for hints. My downstairs dedicated freeze is really good, and much more temperature consistent. COLDER.
I wonder if those older style chest freezers wouldn't be even better?

I'm intrigued by this, especially with all the nice shipping deals offered by pro roasters these days.
3#'s cost no more than 2 lbs, usually.
(OT)
I love sampling pro roasted, for the quality, of course, and as a benchmark for my own improvement.

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cannonfodder
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#27: Post by cannonfodder »

That is unfortunate. I have been freezing my home roasts, and commercial roasts when I get several pounds at a time with good results. I do not vac pack my beans, they just go into a mason jar. On commercial roasts I tape over the valve and toss them in the chill chest. With prolonged storage, I do notice that the beans will age more rapidly once they go into service. However, that is after prolonged storage, months not weeks. When I freeze home roast, I will use pint jars instead of quart. That is about 2-3 days of coffee for me so I can keep what is in the grinder at its prime window. My chest freezer is around -20F.
Dave Stephens

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#28: Post by IMAWriter »

Dave, I figured serious freeze it folks might have a chest freezer.

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Peppersass
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#29: Post by Peppersass »

cannonfodder wrote:On commercial roasts I tape over the valve and toss them in the chill chest.
Why tape over the valve? It's supposed to be one-way, and I would think there would be minimal outgassing.

I've been breaking down commercial roasts into pint mason jars and putting them in the freezer, but this can take up a lot of room in my refrigerator's drawer freezer. I'd rather freeze coffee that won't be used for several weeks in the original bags, as you do, provided they'll protect the beans from air and moisture at least as well as the mason jars. But when you open a frozen bag of commercial roast, do you then break it up into mason jars and stick the portion you're not going to use right away back in the freezer? I've been worried that exposing the beans to air while they're still frozen, and transfering them back into the freezer in mason jars, would risk condensation and maybe freezer burn. I would assume it's bad to let them thaw completely and then refreeze them, right?

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shadowfax
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#30: Post by shadowfax »

Peppersass wrote:Why tape over the valve? It's supposed to be one-way, and I would think there would be minimal outgassing.
Try taking one of those one way valves apart. They are simple, cheap devices that don't work terribly consistently at room temperature. they rely on an oil-lubricated rubber disk sealing against a plastic orifice, and I don't think that the oil seals right when frozen.
Nicholas Lundgaard