I just finished watching Bellissimo's Advanced Barista training video with particular interest in the free form Latte Art. As I watched the different patterns being poured, I noticed that different cup sizes were being used, and I thought that part of my difficulty may be that using a 6oz illy cup might be part of my problem, i.e. maybe I need a bigger cup so I don't run out of room before I complete my art. I accept that maybe it is more a problem of my milk texturing, but even allowing for that, are there any thoughts as to cup size for latte art?

Before posting this, I googled for espresso and cappuccino cup sizes and I was interested in discovering there is a SCAA standard cappuccino size of 5oz for competition, where as the standard seems to be 6oz. Given my problem, I think the 5oz would be even more difficult for me. Then I saw 8 and 10oz cups for sale.

When do you use these different sizes and what relationship does size have to latte art production? Also, is there an optimal shape cup? Is there a preferred manufacturer? is this all just a matter of personal preference and what one gets used to?

Mark Prince posted a picture of one of the baristas at 49th Parallel pouring a 13-leaf rosetta macchiato! Skills are skills, but a bigger cup does make it easier. I personally prefer the Illy 5 - 6 ounce cups.

The WBC currently prescribes 5 to 6 ounce cups for cappas, the taste score is weighted six times higher than the appearance score, and only single shot is allowed per cup. So there's a real danger of drowning out the coffee's taste. Savvy competitors tend to pour solid caps with lighter foams in the smallest possible cups rather than intricate striations of dense foams in larger cups. As a former judge, I can say that this format makes for shabby looking and milquetoast tasting cappas. The rules could probably use a second look, and they desperately need a second shot. In any case, the WBC is not the place to look for latte art.

I vaguely remember that competitors at the Coffeefest Latte Art competitions used 10 to 12 ounce cups, but I'm not sure. Here the drawback is that the creations are for show only, not for tasting.

So despite the fact that 95% of all espresso shots go into milk drinks, there is no competition that rewards the flat out best tasting and best looking milk drink.

In any case, for the really complex latte art, i.e. multiple shapes, large wide bowl cups offer the best canvas.

Size isn't really what's critical.
Shape is what you need to pay attention to.
Cups that have flat spots are much harder to work with.
It's why I'm a big fan of ACF.
I personally really like the following ones for latte art:
- the 5.5oz tulip Cup
- the 5oz "tea" Cup (with the polished interior)
- the 2.25 oz macchiato Cup

i prefer some foil shaped into a cup. hard to drink out of, hurts my fillings.



its easier in a bigger wider cup. practice is the most important thing to help. not only the pouring but also the milk prep. practice will get you progressing.

6 ounce or larger bowl shaped cups work best for me. Aluminum foil gets too hot to hold.

That foil rosetta is just ridiculous. It reminds me of the rosetta someone poured in another guys mouth. Anyways...

I saw some pretty pro latte art being poured into 5 oz cups at an informal competition I went to. I think most reasonable latte art can be attained in a 5-6 oz cup. Granted, the youtube video of someone pouring 5 rosettas into the same cup must have been at least 12 oz.

I've been learning with a bowl shape 10 oz cup. I like it in terms of pouring. Then again, even though I only use double shots, it seems pretty huge in terms of milk balance.

I would third the motion that bowl shaped cups offer some advantages. You can angle them towards the pitcher more easily, giving yourself more time to mark the crema.

When I put out my BEST latte art, its when my buddies are over, or when family is over for dinner. Why? Because, try as I may, the drinks they love, are 12oz lattes.

Furthermore, when I FIRST got into espresso, I too loved latte's. I bought a set of Luigi Bormilio Double Wall Latte Cups, which are 12oz. To this day, with all the cups Ive bought(and Ive got a good collection), those remain the BEST cups for latte art. For me. Perfect Bowl Shape, Nice handle to stabalize the cup while pouring, and 12oz is plenty of room for the biggest of hearts, to the leafiest of rosetta's.

When it comes to Tulips, I hard a hard time with them when I first tried. But, it's just a bit of a different technique, and once you get used to it, you have more control over when the milk marks the crema. Also, I find it easier to get the spout really into the cup.

A round bottom is paramount. I think, the bigger the cup, the easier it is to pour those super leafy rosetta's. But, when it comes to hearts and tulips, I find the bowls/tulips about the same.

If you're looking for a nice 12oz latte cup for latte art, that also looks great, and is nice and thick.. Go to Gimme!'s Website. Ive got their Latte Cup(and the Demi), and its a great cup for pouring art. But, 12oz has been wayyy to big for me for some time now, so, EspressoParts is now selling a whole slew of cups, in different sizes and shapes. I received 2 of the 8oz Bowl Shaped Brown cups for Christmas. I find it's a nice size for a morning drink, as the coffee isn't invisible like it is in a 12oz cup, but there is still enough milk to offer a smooth, waking up with your coffee, drink. Plus, Its a great latte art cup.

As an Aside.. I personally think a well executed Tulip, is much harder to pour then a rosetta, and looks much more elegant, when you get it right. Apparently, Sammy Piccolo pours a uber-nice double half moon tulip(pics are abundant on Mark P's FlickrStream). Furthermore, I find very nice tulip(once you get the hang of em'), are plenty doable in smaller cappuccino cups. Tulips were the hardest of the three designs for me.

As a second aside... For a smoother drink, try adding a DROP, or two, of microfoam to the shot, and stirring it up, and then pouring your art.(this was mentioned in a sidebar in Scott Rao's book, and I find it is a great technique)

Thanks for replies! Follow up question: what is meant by tulip shape vs bowl? Is the flat bottom cup the tulip and a round bottom a bowl? Or is it the way the sides rise ie the bowl is a more constant round curvature vs. tulip which gets progressively more vertical? Or is it both? Or is it just a size thing, bowls are bigger?

it is the way the sides rise up. the bowl leave you with more area at the rim for the art to live in. they both may be the same volume with different shapes.

jon

A tulip cup looks vaguely like a tulip.

http://www.espressoparts.com/EP_TC5_BLACK

A bowl cup is shaped like, well, a bowl.

http://www.espressoparts.com/EP_SL7_BLACK

D'oh! Dan beat me to it!