Basket Overdosing; time for a serious re-evaluation! - Page 23

by **Ken Fox** on Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:00 am

dgreen wrote:Hello All,

Forgive me for resurrecting this thread, but it's one of the most interesting I've read on the site.

I'm a pre-machine newbie. While waiting for my PIDed Silvia from hitechespresso (the Macap M4 is already here, grinding for a -- *shudder* -- moka pot), I've been trying to learn as much as I can about the art and science of making good espresso. This is an incredible site with tons of information. Been looking at a lot of YouTube vids, as well.

So, one of the things I'd like to try is the 14g dose vs the 18-21g updose that most people seem to use. There's a lot of logic to Ken's argument about machine design, and I'd like to test it for myself.

First question(s): I read in a post that Silvia likes updosing. Is that really true? Has anyone tried 14g doses in a Silvia?

Second question: Several posts in this thread say that U.S. roasters have engineered their blends for the updosing that's become typical for U.S. baristas (almost every video on YouTube features updosing, as does the Heather Perry Espresso 101 series.) Can anyone recommend any first-rate blends or SO coffees suitable for 14g doses available from U.S. roasters?

Third question: I'm not ready for home roasting yet. For experimentation purposes, I've ordered some Machristay Black Pearl from Chris Coffee (it's here and I'm using it in the moka), some Black Cat from Intelligensia, and some WBC from Coffee Klatch. I'm not sure, but I suspect all of these have been optimized for updosing. The Intelligensia site is the only one that gives brewing recommendations, and they say 18-20g. How well are these coffees likely to work at 14g?

Any info would be much appreciated.

I don't know about the Chris Coffee blend, but the others are designed to be used at doses well above 14g.

All of this however begs the question. The Silvia is a very "challenging" machine to get good shots out of. At your level of experience, especially with this machine, I think you already have way too much on your plate to even be contemplating a comparison of anything. Using the coffees that you have on hand (which will go stale long before you pull two decent, consecutive shots from your new Silvia) will just further compound the problem.

I suggest that you concentrate on trying to get drinkable shots out of your new equipment however you are able to do it, and leave the comparisons until later, probably much later.

ken

by **another_jim** on Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:08 am

First off, if you haven't already, order a bottomless PF and a 1/10th gram scale. This will get you up to speed on consistent dosing and packing for whatever weight you chose.

Italian machines and baskets are designed for 7 and 14 grams, so while lots of blends taste better updosed, it's easier to pull consistent shots using lower doses. BTW, the Rancilio baskets suck, especially the single, get Faema (E61) or LM baskets.

The blends you ordered will all work better at high doses. Order the espresso single origins from Terroir for a selection of coffees that will work best at lower doses.

by **malachi** on Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:16 am

Ken Fox wrote:I suggest that you concentrate on trying to get drinkable shots out of your new equipment however you are able to do it, and leave the comparisons until later, probably much later.

I second this advice.

by **zin1953** on Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:09 pm

+2.

Tackling too many variables at one time means understanding few and mastering none. Take it easy. Take it one step at a time . . .

by **Bushrod** on Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:42 pm

another_jim wrote:This is why I call "one variable at a time" the moron mantra. The variables are not independent, and by changing one at a time, you are just accommodating the current choice to the bad choices you made earlier

by HB on Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:48 pm

Split follow-on discussion to Change one variable at a time - good advice?

by **misterdoggy** on Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:23 pm

The revival of this thread has been very helpful and there is just one obstacle and that is when I reduced the amount from practically 20g down to 16g my Espro Tamper "bottoms out" on all 3 of the double baskets I have.

So.... I will try to search around my minor stock of smaller diameter tampers to make sure to get the good tamp. What do you all do to avoid this ?

Secondly, I noticed my pucks are not solid on the top plain, pock marked in the center and more mushy when the puck gets ejected with the lower dose ?? This could be due to the tamper not getting completely into the basket.

One good thing is the flow is more consistent, finer and darker longer and really looks better than anything I've been doing previously, so if 16g is better, I wonder what 14g will give

Also relating back to the grinder setting, at 16g my Kony is wound way back much closer to the factory settings maybe less than 8 notches away now. Maybe I've been way off the mark about my process.

thanks guys !!

by **Naga418** on Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:10 am

Revival again

So I have lurked around here for awhile. I have been making espresso since I fell in love with it in Italy in 2006. I have drank coffee all over the world. It is sad that you can get a better espresso at a truck stop in Germany than at 90% of the coffee shops in the US.

Over time I have read many tips and tricks to making espresso all of which suggested a big dose and heavy tamping. I am not "into" coffee like a lot of people I just like good quality coffee and with a lot of practice I have been making good coffee for years. Last night I could not sleep so I am doing random searches and come up with this thread. I read page after page. This morning I get up, grind some beans, give my Mazzer Mini two slaps of the doser handle (roughly 12g based on passsed measurements), and believe it or not I tamp with that duck bill sticking out of the front of my Mazzer which for years I had no clue how that thing was even close to being funtional based on the all the info I had read over the years. I lock in to my Ellimatic and pull a shot like I was back at Gio's bar in Mugello next to the garage we prepped the two stoke cafe racers. I almost took the day off from work it was so good.

Amazing to say the least. I can't even count the number of shots I have pulled over the years trying to get my grind, tamp, dose, etc... down for consistent shots. My wife has never really gotten the hang of it. The main cause of this was the amount of coffee suggested pretty much across the board in all info in the US.

I can't wait till I get home from work so I can show my wife and have her pull a shot or two. I have an Ohaus "Dial "O" Gram" in the garage I am going to break out to weigh some shots and get it down to where it needs to be.


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