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Backflush instead of just flushing an HX espresso machine to save water?

Postby CelliniEVO on Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:13 pm

What's the consensus on backflushing before pulling a shot as opposed to a regular flush routine? I still haven't gotten around to plumbing in my Cellini Evoluzione and am using water from the local spring so I'd rather run a 10 second back-flush and kill 2 birds with 1 stone as opposed to just wasting the water.

While I'm posting, I'm also curious if I could turn down the thermostat to decrease the amount of water I have to flush? I haven't read anything on this subject, so pardon my ignorance. The blend I use most of the time calls for pulling at 200deg.....to hit this temp I do a 10 second flush before dosing and tamping and normally Eric's thermometer spikes at 206 and then decreases to 201-202 during the shot depending on how long I take dosing/tamping.
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Postby allon on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:26 pm

If you're flushing a lot, you can try lowering the pressurestat a little.

The HX flush isn't to run he pump or heat the group (though it does secondarily) -- the purpose is to flush the too-hot water out of the HX. A backflush won't accomplish the same as running more water through the group.
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Postby erics on Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:15 pm

A key to your "problem" or "fortune" would be your specific altitude in Boulder, CO. See my chart on this page for an interesting read: How does high altitude affect brewing?

For the Rocket line of machines in your particular case, I would say that it is best to flush a few ounces and brew, i.e. you would be following a flush-n-go procedure. This is, by a goodly margin, the most common way of preparing a drink. Backflushing has its place but not here.

Typically I have seen and read that Rocket machines arrive at the doorstep with a maximum boiler pressure reading of 1.10 bar. For the average user, a flush of 5-6 ounces and brew would be fine. But for you in Boulder, CO, a lesser flush would be better because you are starting off at a lower temp due to the altitude.
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Postby tcaton on Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:32 pm

Has Matthew's idea been dismissed prematurely? I know nothing of the Rocket design. That said, I believe Quickmill locates the overpressure valve after the heat exchanger. So, I would expect backflushing a QM to flush the superheated water from the HX back into the tank, rather than out the group and into the drip tray. Observing the end of the water dance might become a little trickier. But you HXers like a challenge, right? ;)

Disclaimer: I don't own a HX, and am probably highly unqualified to participate in this thread. However, having to waste 5-6 oz of water before each shot on a non-plumbed machine was a big factor in my choice of machines.
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Postby cannonfodder on Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:48 pm

No. A backflush does not flush water through the group until you open the 3 way valve. Then it only flushes a couple ounces. So I guess yes you could do backflushes instead of a regular flush, but it may take you a half hour of flushing to cool the group. Stick to a normal cooling flush and backflush when you need to clean the group.
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Postby Jeff on Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:44 pm

[C]urious if I could turn down the thermostat to decrease the amount of water I have to flush


In my experience, if you turn down the boiler pressure too much, the rebound time starts stretching out to painfully long lengths. I just suffered from this yesterday when I went from a "cool" pulling coffee to a "normal" one without bumping up my presently reduced boiler pressure and had time to pull a sorrowfully dampened puck (from being locked in for far too long), regrind, dose, and still had plenty of time to wait.

EricS has a graph that might be of interest to you on page 6 of his Adapter Tidbits.pdf showing how one machine responds differently with varying boiler pressure.
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Postby boar_d_laze on Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:27 pm

If you brew 6 doubles a day, and flush 4 ounces per pull (you won't), that's only 24 oz of water "wasted," about the right amount of ice to make two martinis. You waste substantially more in the shower or on the john. There are better places to save water.

It's hard to say the flush is wasted though, when it's so important to the process. It serves two major functions.

Important but secondary is stabilizing the path by harmonizing its various parts; and water which doesn't flow through the entire path, including the group and pf, can't do that. This matters most after the machine has been left idling for any length of time.

More important to the practical art of brewing with an HX is learning to read the flush accurately, to know when the temp is Goldilocks' "just right." Backflushing is helpful but doesn't convey enough accurate, real time information.

Machines with quick rebound should be flushed before every shot.

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Postby tcaton on Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:53 pm

Point taken about cooling the group. However, my point (and I believe the OP's) about wasting water wasn't motived by some hippie "save the environment" mentality. My tap water is too hard to brew with, so I rely on bottled. More water used means hauling more gallon-sized jugs home from the store, more futzing with the tank under low cabinets, and more chances of forgetting to empty the drip tray. Thus, water "efficiency" and convenience are closely related.

Oh well. It was worth exploring.
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