Are tampers overrated? - Page 2

by **cafeIKE** on Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:19 pm

The correct order is Miscela, Macinadosatore, Macchina and lastly, Mano on an 8 : 4 : 2 : 1 ratio.

On the Mano side of things Dose*, Distribution*, Temperature and Tamp on the same 8 : 4 : 2 : 1 ratio.

Put another way, tamping is about one half of 1% of what it takes to make espresso.

* [EDIT]
Dose trumps distribution for lower doses on e61 machines. The reverse maybe true for higher doses and / or machines other than e61.

by **GVDub** on Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:23 pm

zin1953 wrote:Danger! Danger! Warning, Will Robinson! Boring philosophical thread drift ahead!

Far be it for me to be a contrarian, but . . .

Let's make vast over-generalizations and -simplifications for a moment and proclaim there are only three types of people on this site: lurkers and true newbies, true experts and/or professionals, and the rest of us -- who possess varying degrees of experience ranging from a "10" to a "90" on some mythical scale; with the lurkers being a 0-10, and the pros being 90-100. (This is a variation on the famed "80-10-10 Rule.")

It often seems to me that, in terms of importance, the "Four M's" are typically listed in reverse order of importance: rather than Macchina espresso (machine), Macinadosatore (grinder), Miscela (blend of coffee beans), and Mano dell'operatore (us -- the people who pull the shots), it should be the other way 'round. And yet, it is that order which dominates the discussion . . .

Thus, it is distinctly, possible if not probable, that many new people to espresso focus too much on the equipment and not enough on the coffee itself and upon the technique . . . that's all I'm really saying here.

Cheers,
Jason

That's because it's dead easy to do something about your equipment and grinder (provided you've got a credit card with enough available), simple to do something about the beans (find a new place to get 'em from), but hard to work on your skills, 'cause it's, ya know, actual work. I see this constantly in my other life as a musician, where I know people who spend thousands on collecting nicer and nicer guitars, but never spend a cent on improving their actual facility on the instrument in question. It's all too easy to get hung up on the stuff that's easiest to do something about. Doing the hard stuff first? That's the sign of a real pro.

by **cannonfodder** on Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:39 pm

Since we are on the topic, also see Tamp and Dose Techniques Digest. I should add a new video or two on that thread.

by **takeshi** on Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:28 pm

GVDub wrote:I see this constantly in my other life as a musician, where I know people who spend thousands on collecting nicer and nicer guitars, but never spend a cent on improving their actual facility on the instrument in question.

It happens in every field of interest out there. It's easy to blame and replace equipment.

On the other side of the coin you have equipment fetishists as well. Some people get fixated on tampers. Whether one particular piece of equipment is "overrated" or not depends more than a bit on your perspective on things.

by **michaelbenis** on Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:00 am

A tamper's just a tool.

Frankly I'm not sure whether they're overrated because I'm not sure anyone's put them in a table.

A good fit helps and nice construction provides good feedback. This can make a tamper a helpful purchase considering even some quite good machines are supplied with tampers that are the wrong size - but this only makes things a bit more difficult rather than impossible. A good tamper can increase someone's confidence and feel for the grind, though, which can help get them "in the zone".

A good tamper will also help a pro barista relax a bit as they pull shot after shot easily in a rushed and stressful environment and can make life more pleasurable (in a tactile sense) for a home barista.

Overall, though, I agree with others, we have a tendency in this day and age to concentrate too much on what we buy at the expense of what we do....

Cheers

Mike

by **clausbmortensen** on Tue May 12, 2009 4:44 am

Don't mean to bump this post but having just upgraded my machine I caved in and bought a nicer tamper.

It's a nice local Hong Kong design:

http://www.coffeebumper.com/images/Picture_022.jpg (I got the one on the left, which was the only one available in the store).

Although I'm not too impressed by the finish (the handle is not quite straight and the rubber ridge across it should have been removed) it's certainly very nice to use. I'm not sure that I'm making better espresso because of it but it's a slightly nicer experience now

C

by **cannonfodder** on Tue May 12, 2009 10:09 am

That is a bumper tamp, those are made by Paul Pratt, a regular on HB and all around nice guy. I can assure you that the handle should not be crooked. If it is I would look him up (Members icon between the FAQ and Logout in the page title bar) and let him know. He makes a very nice tamping station/stand as well. Been using one for a couple of years or so.

by **zin1953** on Tue May 12, 2009 10:33 am

Claus, Dave is correct: I have two Bumper® tampers, as well as two of Paul's Bumper® tamper stands, and two Bumper® knockboxes -- one set at home; the other in my office -- and I can assure you the fit and finish of Paul's stuff is excellent.

Cheers,
Jason

by **clausbmortensen** on Tue May 12, 2009 9:51 pm

Well, perhaps Paul's people have started to slack on quality control - or perhaps he just export the "good stuff" and sells the poorer batches in Hong Kong

. I've seen the tamper in two stores here in HK - and both had the same problem as you can see on this picture:

It's not a huge deal and it's still very useful - but it does annoy me slightly.

The tamper stand is tempting but it's rather over-priced at the only shop I've seen carrying it here.

Cheers,
C

by **Marshall** on Tue May 12, 2009 10:17 pm

Knock-off, perhaps? I've notified Paul.

by **Paul_Pratt** on Tue May 12, 2009 10:29 pm

Hi Claus,

Apologies for the what I can only say is a very poor fit! Looks very much like a bumper handle. In the past we did have some shrinkage on the handles. Did you buy that recently by any chance as things have been really hectic and a few local companies asked for items and we sent things out in a hurry when I wasn't comfortable doing it. Not an excuse, it happened when it shouldn't have.

The manufacturing side for me is really frustrating which is why we decided to relaunch bumper as Cafelat, amongst other things we have really worked hard on new manufacturing techniques.

Drop me a PM or email through http://www.cafelat.com and I will make it up to you.

Paul

by **clausbmortensen** on Tue May 12, 2009 10:44 pm

Wow - that was fast!

Thanks Marshall for helping out and Paul for getting back to me right away.

Yeah, I bought the tamper this past Saturday from one of the shops you list on the Bumper website. And I can appreciate how the manufacturing side can be frustrating. It's relatively cheap in this neck of the woods but quality and consistence is always an issue.

I took a look at Cafelat and you have some nice stuff there. And I see you have a fellow Dane helping with design

Cheers,
Claus

by **Paul_Pratt** on Tue May 12, 2009 10:48 pm

Marshall wrote:Knock-off, perhaps? I've notified Paul.

You mean these?

From our buddies in China.

Next we have Tiamo from Taiwan, found on an auction site.

There's quite a few more such as Italian Motta knockbox which looks a bit like mine as well

The problem with these items is that the numbers sold don't justify much in the way of IP protection.

Paul

by **clausbmortensen** on Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:48 pm

A little 'closure' to this:

Paul did indeed get in touch with me the same day and I'm now the proud owner of one of the first "Cafelat" tampers.

I've been using it for a couple of weeks now and I must say that it's very nice. The Bumper tamper was fine but the finish is much better on the Cafelat and the handle feels just right - both for tamping and polishing:

And a top view:

Paul told me that they should be ready to ship soon so watch out for the Cafelat line in a shop near you!

C

by **SlowRain** on Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:51 am

Paul_Pratt wrote:Next we have Tiamo from Taiwan, found on an auction site.

<image>

I saw one of these in a Tiamo store a couple of days ago. It was a 51mm. They were selling it for 1,080TWD.

Tiamo really annoys me. Anything they import, they jack up the price like crazy. Then they make knock-offs of other people's stuff, like Bodum and Bumper. It's a little contradictory. (Now, having said that, I'm not exactly the biggest opponent of knock-offs.)

by **cas99** on Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:07 pm

I would agree that tampers, like many accessories are over-rated and hyped. Many parts are rebranded generics or, from a visual and technical point of view, indistinguishable from generic pieces. This apparently part of marketing. I think some good old-fashioned economic and ergonomic common sense ought to inform purchases.

by **nixter** on Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:34 pm

Before I brought my extra plastic "came with my Oscar" tamper to use at work I was using the base of a small water glass that fit the PF nicely. Boy did it ever make a huge difference in taste! not.

by **FredK** on Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:26 am

My plastic tamper that came with the machine works better for me than the nice new shiny tamper I just bought. The light weight helps me get a better feel for the tamp. It seems when I use the plastic tamper, I almost never have channeling issues. Can't say that for my stainless steel tamper.


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