Mook wrote:I've read that people ristrict there ristretto by using there normal espresso grind and then stopping the pump at approximately 20 ml (resulting in an extraction that is probably just under 20 seconds). Same for lungo's: same grind but leaving the pump on for a longer time till it's a 50 ml (or 60, or whatever you fancy) drink.

Won't that just give you under- (for the smaller volume) and over- (for the larger volume) extracted coffee?

Have a look at the 'extraction space' diagram here

Dave

Mook wrote:So as far I understand there's no 1 rule. I've read that people ristrict there ristretto by using there normal espresso grind and then stopping the pump at approximately 20 ml (resulting in an extraction that is probably just under 20 seconds). Same for lungo's: same grind but leaving the pump on for a longer time till it's a 50 ml (or 60, or whatever you fancy) drink.

Whatever you read was, in my opinion, flat out wrong. That isn't 'restricting' anything, it is just turning it off sooner.

You pull a ristretto with a finer grind and a lungo with a coarser grind, still shooting for the 30 sec mark (although going longer with ristretto's isn't a bad thing, and is sometimes a very good thing).

Again, turning the flow off at different times doesn't create different drinks, just the same drink with different volumes.

Mook wrote:Are all espresso types extracted in 20-30 seconds?

I've had quite a few 40 second godshots and one or two at 50 seconds as well.

My advice:

1. Forget entirely about shot time.
2. Stop the shot when the flow blondes
3. Set your grinder for shot volume; coarser for larger volumes at the blonding point, finer for lower volumes.

If you are using an auto, set the grinder so the flow is just blonding at the cut off volume, and forget about time again.

Doing this, you will find your lungos and cafe cremas running around 20 seconds, normales running around 25 to 30 seconds, and ristrettos mostly 30 to 40 seconds. The less volume the shot, the longer the time it takes, and the larger the time variance, shot to shot. Flow color and blonding point are log-linear with respect to time and volume.

another_jim wrote:I've had quite a few 40 second godshots and one or two at 50 seconds as well.

I'll second that.

It's a guideline, not an absolute rule. There's some give in it - its the mean/median/mode/whatever.

Thanks people. Thanks to people like you I keep learning every day.

Ruben Mook

Concerning the americano: I prefer to pull a normal double directly into the cup of hot water, I like how you get some crema floating on top.

As for determining shot time, generally 25-30 seconds works well. A key factor to watch is the color of the shot, if it is not going blond at 30 seconds then it's fine to let it keep going until it does. Conversely, you may need to stop some short if they blond too early (which can be a sign of some problems).

Mook wrote:It just feels weird pulling an espresso shot in hot water

Maybe these pics on JimSeven's blog will change your mind! I'm very jealous...

http://www.jimseven.com/2007/02/2...h-some-glass-cups/

DC