If you could get a Super Jolly or Anfim Caimano for the same price, what would you choose?

I'm considering an upgrade from my Rocky and would like something that would last for years before I upgrade again. I've considered the usual suspects like Mazzer Mini and Macap M4, but based on opinions on this forum it appears the Super Jolly is slightly better. Then there's the Anfim. There's virtually no information available on it, but what I've read sounds very promising, and I can get it for about the same price as a Super Jolly.

While I have never used an Anfim, I have spoken to a few baristas who do. At Gimme Coffee, the Barista seemed to really like the perfect distribution and precise timer dosing that the Anfim provided. He explained to me that instead of adjusting the grind, it was best to set the grind once and adjust the timer (via another dial, grind is started for that amount of time with a button) if a shot change is needed. Also, he said that you just grind, thwackthwackthwack, and tamp, without distributing: the timer dosing meant that distribution would knock out some of the coffee that you just worked so hard on precisely dialing in, thus changing the shot parameters.
(Note: I'm not sure which Anfim model they had at Gimme, but it may be similar to the one you're looking at.)

A barista at Ninth Street Espresso, given a choice between a Marzocco and a Synesso and a Mazzer Robur and an Anfim told me he preferred the Marzocco and the Anfim. Each shot seemed effortless: he just pushed the button without worrying about when he would turn off the Mazzer. When watching him make a few shots before getting to mine, I noticed that the doser made a PERFECT pile of grinds in the basket. I didn't have the picture of a Mazzer's doser distribution in my head to compare with, but the Anfim just looked so neat.

Once again, I've used neither of the grinders you're asking about, just posting what I've heard from professional baristas in NYC.

Dan F., I think your barista friends were talking about the Anfim Super Caimano, which has massive 75mm burrs, whereas it looks like the OP is talking about the 'regular' Caimano, which is a 64 mm grinder just like the Super Jolly. While the Super Caimano is unquestionably in the league of the Robur/Major, I would be surprised if the Caimano was quite there. Still, it looks to have the same clean, clump-reducing doser that the Super Caimano has, so it might be preferable to the fairly messy Super Jolly.

Dan S., I think that you are right to want a bigger grinder. If you have the space and the money, you will get noticeably better consistency with a 64 mm burrset grinder over the mini 58 mm burrset grinders such as the Mini and Macap M4. I've had a Mini and now have a Super Jolly, and I am really glad I upgraded. I don't think that you can go wrong with either grinder (Caimano or Super Jolly), and I would be surprised if there's a compelling reason to pick either one over the other beyond cosmetics (the look of the grinder and the cleanliness). Still, I would love to hear someone with experience chime in, because I haven't ever heard of someone with the smaller Caimano either.

You're right, I'm talking about the 64mm Caimano, not the 75mm Super Caimano - That's beyond my budget now. And I would be buying the model with a manual on/off switch, not the automatic version (I'm not even sure what the difference is).

Another difference is that the Caimano is 800RPM while the Super Jolly is 1400.

The doser seems to be one of the biggest advantages mentioned for the Caimano.

I'm tempted to buy the Anfim, but it's virtually unknown, while there's a ton of information available on the Super Jolly. Of course that doesn't mean anything, I bought the Silvia and Rocky for the same reason and would have chosen differently if I could do it over again...

dstaver wrote:Another difference is that the Caimano is 800RPM while the Super Jolly is 1400.

I hadn't noticed that--that's very interesting. While it might take as long as a Mazzer Mini to grind a double shot at 800 rpm, I would imagine that is bound to influence the cup profile as well, so there may actually be some significant differences in grind quality/cup character. That's a really tough call. The Super Jolly is a rock solid grinder that deserves its reputation and then some, but like you say, the cleaner dosing is very tempting.

Have you thought of holding out till you have a bigger budget? The Rocky seems like a tedious grinder, but if it works fine and you think that you might want the Super Caimano (... or a Kony, or a VL M3, or a Robur, or ...) someday, it might pay to wait till you can afford something higher end than either of these grinders.

One of the things I want in a new grinder is faster grind speed and less noise. The 20+ second grinding on my Rocky several times in the morning drives my wife crazy. If I got the Super Jolly I would want to switch to the dura-mill burrs for the faster speed.

I just found a video of the doserless Caimano:


Not that much faster than the Rocky, and from what I can tell from the video it clumps.

Well, I know I could always save for something more expensive and better, but I'm already considering spending over $800 on a grinder. A year ago that would have seemed totally insane... If I get a bigger budget I'd probably want to spend it on an upgrade from the Silvia. (And don't forget my other hobby is photography, not exactly cheap either...)

I counted about 13 seconds to grind that mound. Is your Rocky really that fast? Wow. I remember my Mazzer Mini taking more like 17 seconds. It could be the video quality, but that really does look like bad clumping. On the other hand, dosers can take care of that pretty easily, and clumping also doesn't ALWAYS cause poor extractions. I recall reading, for example, in the Titan Grinder Project, that while the conicals would sometimes clump as bad as a Mazzer Mini, they didn't show it the same way in their pours, and it didn't effect the quality.

Still, I doubt you will find a grinder faster than the Super Jolly (with Dura-mills) in your budget. I am very spoiled to its 5-7 second grinds. If you want something truly serious, there's the Major... I fear that thing. After I bought my Super Jolly, I saw a Major on eBay and had a moment of regret. But then I thought, hmm. I think I would waste a TON of coffee with a grinder that fast (say, 3 seconds for a double)... The timing errors get a lot more significant with that kind of speed.

I know what you mean about budgeting--I had a Silvia for a little while, and I have to admit that If I had a Super Jolly and a Silvia and I were thinking of an upgrade, I would go for the machine upgrade, either HX or probably double boiler. After you get a Mazzer Mini, you start to see really diminishing returns on grinders. I thought the Super Jolly was a big upgrade, especially in terms of convenience (faster, fewer botched shots), but I don't think it gets much better than that, even with big conicals or electronics--you mostly just get more cleanliness, slight speed improvements (or even a speed hit on 64mm conicals... I think the Macap MXKR is as slow as a Mini), and only somewhat noticeable cup improvement. But Silvia is a seriously crippled machine in terms of convenience.

I think you've rightly identified your upgrade need as it is--the Rocky is the weak point right now, but when you get a Super Jolly class grinder, it might well not be worth it to have anything better till you get a less... tedious machine. On the other hand, I know of at least one crazy dude/living legend who still has a Silvia for his machine, and a Robur and Versalab for grinders... I think his Robur is the big 3-Phase 220V, too

Well maybe the Caimano is a bit faster, it's just that I recently saw one of the big Mazzers in action. I'm not sure which, a Major or Robur or a Kony, but it was super fast. Just a few seconds for a double. When I say I want a faster grinder it's something closer to that I have in mind.

After seeing the video I I'm leaning towards the Super Jolly with the dura-mill burrs again. The price is right, lots of positive user feedback, fast grinding, and very tweakable - which appeals to the geek in me. I also think my wife will be happier with the faster grinding speed.

How is the noise level while grinding with the Super Jolly compared to the Rocky?

In any case, I'm happy to use a doser - The cup quality improved noticably when I started to thwack the Rocky while grinding. Much fluffier grinds and less channeling.

I can tell you that if you saw a fast grinder, it sure as heck wasn't a Kony. They are pretty disappointing, speed-wise. I believe that the speed ranking for Mazzers goes something like this: Major, 3-phase Robur, SJ(duramills), 110V Robur, Super Jolly, Kony, and finally the Mini.

The Kony isn't a total slouch like the Mini, but I found it noticeably slower. EspressoParts NW has a table of grind speeds for a 20 gram dose that matches up pretty closely to what I wrote, with the exception that they seem to think that the Mini is pretty fast--that certainly hasn't been my experience, but I don't have mine handy to time it. I would believe 19 seconds sooner than 9 seconds (what they have on their table).

As far as noise, check this out:


The music is extremely annoying, but if you scrub in about 1:00, you will catch him grinding. Scrub to 1:45 and you can hear his Giotto's vibratory pump, heh. I don't know how helpful that is... you can certainly hear that the Super Jolly is significantly quieter than a pump or steam wand. His 9 seconds is about right for the stock burrs, which is another reason I don't believe EPNW's claim that a mini can put out 20 grams in 9 seconds. On the other hand, the thwacking can get somewhat noisy, depending on how violently you thwack your doser. This can be mitigated with a little rubber foot placed on the spot where the doser is stopped, if you find it too noisy. If you are really concerned about the noise, you may want to research into the noise factor of the Caimano doser or consider a doserless arrangement, because I think that you will find that the doser is the noisiest part of any high end grinder (if you thwack it, of course).