I am having trouble adjusting the shot time. I am using an old La Cimbali D and a Super Jolly with new burrs. I adjusted the free pour shot size as per the recommendation on the Dan Kehn review. I am using fresh beans from a local roaster, I fill the basket and level it and tamp to 30lb.
The problem is I am getting fast shots 20 seconds or so, if I adjust the grind finer the shot volume goes way down and the time stays roughly the same. To get a 30 second extraction I need to increase the free pour shot water volume to around 4oz to get a 2oz shot.
Can anyone help me diagnose this problem.

Steve

When you say,

t3steve wrote:To get a 30 second extraction I need to increase the free pour shot water volume to around 4oz to get a 2oz shot,

are you talking about the auto or something else?

Yes, you program a volume and then push the button and the machine dispenses a set volume of water.

Stephen,

1) Ignore -- for the time being, at least -- the auto function; every full auto machine can be operated as a semi-automatic.

2) Remember that things like a 30 lb. tamp, a 25 second pour, and all the rest are GUIDELINES, not absolutes. The only thing that counts is the taste! (If you produced an outrageously great shot in ten seconds, that would be wonderful . . . and we'd all wonder how you did it!)

3) You haven't said a word about how your shot TASTES. If your shot tastes great at 20 seconds, what's the problem?

Cheers,
Jason

Jason is right. The difference in the amount of water you see setting the auto in free flow and in the cup is what is absorbed by the puck and what accumulates above the puck and is expelled by the three way valve. This will vary by dose, grind setting and coffee blend. The auto function is most useful when you use a fixed dose and the same or similar coffee blends.

Check the articles and FAQs on site; you need to read up on the basics of espresso prep.

I am using it as a semi auto now and the shot does seem to taste best around 30 seconds. I am trying to stick to the "standards, 30lbs, 30 seconds, 2oz etc" because I don't have a huge amount of experience tasting like some people here.
I guess my concern is that the 3way seems to be bypassing a lot of water. The espresso machine is older but I had it checked and adjusted by Vaneli's after I purchased it.

Stephen, remember that the "standards" are merely "guidelines," and that "experience tasting" is irrelevant -- we are not (and cannot) taste your shots through the internet. Only you can taste them. That's why what is most important is how your shots taste to you!

I know you are seeking advice -- and that's fine -- but, while listening to advice, you still need to trust your own taste . . .

As long as Vanelli's "checked and adjusted" the machine, it should be fine. The same is true for your SJ with new burrs. You have a great setup, and you don't need to/shouldn't worry about the equipment . . . especially about the 3-way solenoid.

Experiment with the grind; stop the shot on blonding. Taste. Adjust the grind. Repeat.

Cheers,
Jason

t3steve wrote:I guess my concern is that the 3way seems to be bypassing a lot of water.

Can you elaborate on this? Are you seeing water come out of the 3-way's relief tube during the shot? If so, you are probably going to have to replace it. There should be no water leaking out of the 3-way's relief tube during the shot, only at the end. If it's leaking, that means it's not sealing properly when it opens for brewing.

Stephen, Nicholas is quite right. I read your post as saying that the 3-way valve discharges water after the shot is finished. But if water is flowing through the the 3-way valve during the shot, then you have a serious problem . . .

Steve,

As other more experienced Cimbali users will likely suggest, the Junior does much better at a small dose and finer grind. Let the auto settings be a fail-safe rather than the fixed amount of water per shot. I use the "double" setting to approximate the shot, but cut it short 99% of the time depending on how it looks. Those fixed amounts are great for figuring out a flush regime, lousy for pulling a shot, at least for me.

And, as others have pointed out, the whoosh from the 3-way is an after shot thing. During the shot means something is wrong.