I think the valve is leaking during the shot. I don't think I hear it release the pressure (whoosh) after the shot is complete at all. I will have to check tonight.

If it is leaking can it be cleaned/repaired or do I need to buy a new one?

Steve

The 3-way drains on the right side behind and below the gauge. Frequently the whoosh sound on mine is covered up by the water refill. On a normal shot, there isn't a lot of action at the drain. You are obviously getting enough pressure that your shots are coming out, even coming out too fast.

The three way is activated on the junior by turning the machine off or completing a shot. You can also force the shot to complete by turning the volume dial to a selection which has exceeded that volume (double to single for example). The three way can be easily removed, cleaned and examine to see if it is working. All those parts can be replaced as well.

Have you tried doing a backflush? If there is a problem with the 3-way, it will very likely show up there.

When I first started using my Junior, it had only a triple basket. This required a huge amount of water for headspace above the puck and made a shots (not to mention backflushing) really difficult. I thought it was a problem with the 3-way. It wasn't, it was a problem with how I was asking the machine to perform.

t3steve wrote:Yes, you program a volume and then push the button and the machine dispenses a set volume of water.

Well, in the dialing in process on a semi, setting the volumetric dosers comes after setting the grind, coffee dose, and extraction time. Once you get the machine working well on a particular coffee dose and grind, (i.e, for you, presently, 60ml in 30 sec with a 30 lb tamp) then you pull a shot with that combination in mind, and stop the doser setting at 30 sec. This will translate to your particular choice of coffee dose, grind, and tamp.

Junior wrote:Have you tried doing a backflush? If there is a problem with the 3-way, it will very likely show up there.

I will recommend that you indeed try a few detergent backflush. There was a thread in another forum

http://s1cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1221&start=0 about a 3-way valve that was leaking and cleared up after a detergent backflush.

I am not familiar with your machine but it is possible that it could be it.

Hope that helps.

As others have mentioned a drippy 3-way valve during a shot is a bad thing. If it is the vibe pump version, you will also have an OPV return line that will pump water back to the reservoir during a shot and an emergency pressure release valve to vent excess pressure in the internal piping but that usually does not open until around 10-12 bar. I have seen a machine now and then that has these routed to the same drip tray port. Doubtful it is either of those but if a cleaning gets you nowhere you may want to open the case and double check.

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I probably won't have time to really get into it and clean chase down the leak intill this weekend.

Steve

t3steve wrote:I am having trouble adjusting the shot time. ... To get a 30 second extraction I need to increase the free pour shot water volume to around 4oz to get a 2oz shot.
Can anyone help me diagnose this problem.

Shot times are merely an approximate index into the extraction, a "zone": at approximately 9 bars of pressure it should take approximately 30 seconds for 2 oz of water to flow through approximately 14 grams of finely ground coffee in the espresso machine's basket before the viscous stream of reddish-brown espresso begins to turn thin and watery and go yellowish or "blonde". If your stream begins to blonde well before 30 seconds, all else being equal, you would adjust the grind so it's finer, which brings more coffee solids into the equation.

I am a little puzzled by the two to-get's in your statement: "to get a 30 second extraction .. to get a 2oz shot". Are you saying that after 30 seconds you have much less than 2oz in your cup? If so, perhaps you are grinding too finely and/or tamping too heavily, thereby choking the shot, and the water runoff could be the result of that overcompaction. The first step is to do everything you've been doing but do not tamp at all, and see what changes, if anything.

timo888 wrote:Shot times are merely an approximate index into the extraction, a "zone": at approximately 9 bars of pressure it should take approximately 30 seconds for 2 oz of water

Etc. etc...
Yeah, we've discussed that with him earlier in the thread, and he's saying that, as a noob on this machine, this is a good starting point to shoot for. And I agree. If you can't get a machine to pull a thirty second, two ounce shot that doesn't suck, you need to adjust something.
I'm saying that he should definitely try the no volumetric route first, and once he can (or can't) get a shot to do a thirty second two ouncer, we'll have a better idea of what the problem is.
Presently, I (and others) are thinking that the issue is the volumetric dosing being set before he really knows what the volumetric dosing should be set at. Some others are suggesting that parts of the machine are broken, but I'd say that if he can get it to perform adequately without the volumetric dosing, it shouldn't be an issue, or at least it shouldn't be that bad.
Diagnosing the issue has to start with pulling shots without the semi-auto portion engaged before we can rule out or contemplate other more expensive and technically challenging problems.

I hear hoofbeats, lets rule out horses before we start setting zebra traps.

Psyd wrote:I'm saying that he should definitely try the no volumetric route first, and once he can (or can't) get a shot to do a thirty second two ouncer, we'll have a better idea of what the problem is.
Presently, I (and others) are thinking that the issue is the volumetric dosing being set before he really knows what the volumetric dosing should be set at. Some others are suggesting that parts of the machine are broken, but I'd say that if he can get it to perform adequately without the volumetric dosing, it shouldn't be an issue, or at least it shouldn't be that bad.
Diagnosing the issue has to start with pulling shots without the semi-auto portion engaged before we can rule out or contemplate other more expensive and technically challenging problems.

I hear hoofbeats, lets rule out horses before we start setting zebra traps.

You're the one chasing zebras, not me. Before he starts monkeying around with the machine in any way, just pull one shot without tamping.

Let me try to re-state what I have already said.

I can set the grinder and manually operate the espresso machine to dispense a good tasting 2oz espresso in 25-30sec using a 30lb tamp pressure.

Dan Kehn says in his review of La Cimbali Junior DT1 that "set the volumetric dose to 90ml or 3oz to get a 2oz shot (note the extra 30 milliliters above the volume of a standard double accounts for the water absorbed by the puck and the space above the dispersion screen)".

When the grind is too coarse and a 2oz shot is dispensed in 15-20sec then the 90ml water volumetric dose is correct.

When the correct grind is used as determined in the first step above the, water volumetric dose required is around 4 to 4.25oz to get a 2oz espresso.

Now if the extra 30 milliliters above the volume of a standard double accounts for the water absorbed by the puck and the space above the dispersion screen) does not change the extra 1oz of water must go somewhere right?

Steve