18 second double

#1: Post by **Laur67** » August 29th, 2015, 12:04 pm

Hello
I was a bit surprised to hear from a friend at a local bakery that was told by their bean supply rep to target a 18 second double shot. At the bakery, they are using a La Marzocco Swift grinder and Linea machine.
When I heard this I became a bit agitated as my experience and info I have come across has indicated 25-30s thereabouts depending on brew ratio one prefers.
I should note I did not taste the coffee as it was later in the evening and I most likely could have answered this question based on taste. I'm actually curious if anyone does indeed pull 18 second doubles?

Thanks in advance for your comments

#2: Post by **LukeFlynn** » August 29th, 2015, 12:11 pm

The lowest I've ever pulled a shot is 21 seconds, and even that was very under developed and over extracted. That has to be an error of some sort, I've come across my fair share of cafes using very reputable, otherwise specialty coffee equipment (Lineas, etc) that produce really bad espresso. I've also been to several shops using Astorias and Rancilios that really blow away a lot of the former places... proves that machines are pretty much moot in a commercial venture (except grinders)

#3: Post by **LaDan** » August 29th, 2015, 5:26 pm

Pfft. I can pull a triple in 9 seconds if I really try hard.

PS. They are clueless.

#4: Post by **keno** » August 29th, 2015, 6:19 pm

I think it would be hard to extract enough from the coffee that quickly. Generally the recommendation is 25-30 seconds, but sometimes you can get very good shots with a longer extraction. I've never really heard anyone going shorter and getting good results.

The only explanation I can think of is that if they are using over-roasted coffee then cutting the shot at only 18 seconds may help to avoid too much bitterness. But that's just speculation.

#5: Post by **aecletec** » August 29th, 2015, 6:42 pm

LukeFlynn wrote:The lowest I've ever pulled a shot is 21 seconds, and even that was very under developed and over extracted. <Snip>

How do you over extract at 21s?

August 29th, 2015, 7:30 pm

Shot flows too fast yielding too much liquid = over extraction
Shot flows too slow yielding not enough liquor = under extraction

Not exactly relatable to the OP's question, but I've never had a shot pulled in under 22 seconds that was tasty.

#7: Post by **aecletec** » August 29th, 2015, 7:58 pm

Oh, gotcha. Thanks. It's a good point for the topic overall, though.

#8: Post by **TomC** » August 29th, 2015, 7:59 pm

LukeFlynn wrote:Shot flows too fast yielding too much liquid = over extraction
Shot flows too slow yielding not enough liquor = under extraction

You have this backwards.

#9: Post by **LukeFlynn** » August 29th, 2015, 8:29 pm

TomC wrote:You have this backwards.

yeah I realized this after I posted it, just haven't had the chance to fix it on mobile.

#10: Post by **brianl** » August 29th, 2015, 9:56 pm

TomC wrote:You have this backwards.

Assuming it's not channeling, he is correct.