14 grams in, less than 2 ounces out = espresso or ristretto? - Page 2

#11: Post by **kofi** » June 24th, 2015, 6:09 pm

Weight is the only thing that matters.

Can you articulate why?

#12: Post by **Eastsideloco** » June 24th, 2015, 6:55 pm

Because different coffees produce different amounts of crema. In fact, even the same coffee will produce different amounts of crema based on the age of the coffee and shot parameters. Evaluating output by volume fails to account for these variations. Weight captures these differences.

#13: Post by **kofi** » June 24th, 2015, 8:59 pm

One can also argue that the same coffee can yield more or less oil, hence creating different viscosities, which then creates variations in the weight. So 1oz of a restricted flow, which some may call ristretto if it's actually 0.75oz, is different that 1oz of a fast flow.

#14: Post by **RepackEspresso** » June 25th, 2015, 4:57 am

entropy4money wrote:When you say ristrettos won't have the same complexity in terms of balance, would you say the acidity would be more prominent? or bitterness? or would it simply be a different tasting beverage, yet balanced.

As mentioned, ignore volume. Sounds like you're using quite dark coffee, which is not my sort of thing, but it often benefits from a higher brew ratio. Try 60%, with a reasonably large dose.

JP

June 25th, 2015, 10:14 am

kofi wrote:One can also argue that the same coffee can yield more or less oil, hence creating different viscosities, which then creates variations in the weight. So 1oz of a restricted flow, which some may call ristretto if it's actually 0.75oz, is different that 1oz of a fast flow.

But that's why you time it and look at the extraction (mouse tail and stuff). I see what you say about the oil, but I think it might be negligible?, idk it is an interesting point, does someone have a counter-argument for this?

I do get more consistent results by monitoring the weight rather than volume. I gave up in monitoring volume long time ago.

June 25th, 2015, 10:43 am

Whether it's a ristretto, normale or lungo, the scale doesn't lie. It will weigh what it weighs. How it tastes, the brew ratio, the mouthfeel, body, viscosity are all separate issues. It doesn't change the fact that weighing is the most accurate method of measuring output.

#17: Post by **Marcelnl** » June 25th, 2015, 11:14 am

In order to say anything about the amount of oil you'd need some sort of measurement of it,in the end it will not likely make a lot of difference as I expect the percentage of oil to be low and the variation minimal somweighing will not show a lot.
Weighing imo is indeed the best way as crema does affect the perceived output too much.

#18: Post by **kofi** » June 25th, 2015, 1:21 pm

What is the definition of a Ristretto?

#19: Post by **Marcelnl** » June 25th, 2015, 1:39 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ristretto

A double with less total volume in the cup basically.

June 25th, 2015, 1:56 pm

So according to that website's definition is simply half a double. This is really vague because you could achieve this by simply stopping the extraction when it is half done (10-20 seconds) or you could grind finer, dose the same, and stop the extraction around 25-30 seconds. Both methods would deliver a different tasting beverage, which one is the correct one?