14 grams in, less than 2 ounces out = espresso or ristretto?
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I've read around many things about how much a espresso should weigh, how much should your grinds weigh, how long should the extraction take, etc... etc... I am very confused now, because everywhere things are different. Some people say the standard is 14gr, other people say it is as much as 20gr, other people as low as 12gr of ground coffee to prepare a double shot. And most people say that yo should get 2Oz of liquid and about twice the weigh of your dose. So a double espresso made from 14gr should weigh about 28 grams and fill 2 ounces of the cup. Extraction time? anywhere between 20 and 30s. I consider myself a beginner home barista, so I am training myself to make a consistent sort of standard double before I start playing out some brewing tricks.
What I've been consistently getting is the following:
input:
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Bean: Arabica - full city, single origin (Ethiopia)
Dose: 14gr
Output:
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Weight: 26gr (if I get more than this, the coffee is too bitter, less, too sour).
Volume: ~1.5 ounces.
Brewing time: 26-27 seconds.
I like it and it tastes great, but it bothers me to not know what I am drinking. Is this a ristretto? a conventional double espresso? or somewhere in between?
Thank you!!!
What I've been consistently getting is the following:
input:
---------------------
Bean: Arabica - full city, single origin (Ethiopia)
Dose: 14gr
Output:
-------------------------------------
Weight: 26gr (if I get more than this, the coffee is too bitter, less, too sour).
Volume: ~1.5 ounces.
Brewing time: 26-27 seconds.
I like it and it tastes great, but it bothers me to not know what I am drinking. Is this a ristretto? a conventional double espresso? or somewhere in between?
Thank you!!!
- hipporun
- Posts: 192
- Joined: 9 years ago
Ristretto vs espresso vs lungo is all about weight in vs weight out- ratios.
Check out the search function or Google if you want more specific info.
Check out the search function or Google if you want more specific info.
- keno
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- Joined: 18 years ago
- jfrescki
- Posts: 625
- Joined: 14 years ago
If you're weighing your input and output, you're ahead of the game. Don't worry about volume. You're in "range" if your shot pulls between 25 - 35 seconds, and you're producing an extraction ratio between 50% (normale) - 100% (ristretto). The exact formula will depend on the coffee and your taste.
Edit: The shot you describe is basically normale. 14g/26g = 53.8%
Edit: The shot you describe is basically normale. 14g/26g = 53.8%
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- Will Rogers
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Well that makes more sense, that's what I thought. It is confusing because there is a lot of wrong information out there. That chart is great.
So let me get this straight once and for all.
Say I want to make a ristretto, I grind finer and pull a shot? and extraction time should be the same, 20 to 30s?
Also. A ristretto should keep the same flavor balance, but be more intense right?
Thank you
So let me get this straight once and for all.
Say I want to make a ristretto, I grind finer and pull a shot? and extraction time should be the same, 20 to 30s?
Also. A ristretto should keep the same flavor balance, but be more intense right?
Thank you
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I'd ignore definitions and start from some standard ratios and times and then gradually change things a little (as much as possible, one at a time) and see if the taste gets better.
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If you're pulling a ristretto with speciality coffee you're very likely to under extract, so no, taste balance doesn't stay the same.entropy4money wrote:Well that makes more sense, that's what I thought. It is confusing because there is a lot of wrong information out there. That chart is great.
So let me get this straight once and for all.
Say I want to make a ristretto, I grind finer and pull a shot? and extraction time should be the same, 20 to 30s?
Also. A ristretto should keep the same flavor balance, but be more intense right?
Thank you
I never serve a shot in the shop at more than about 55% (eg 16 in 29 out) and most shots are more like 45% (eg 16 in 35.5 out).
JP
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Thank you all for your help and advice. Shots that I make below 50% tend to be on the bitter side for my palate, at least for the beans I am using, and the ones I used before (Arabica - single origin (sumatra) full city roast) so I think I prefer pulling towards a more concentrated espresso sort to speak. Also texture is important to me, and if the espresso doesn't feel very dense, I can't drink it.
I am generally looking for a shot where everything is there, and balanced. Bitterness should be there, and taste more like dark chocolate than something burnt (even though I don't like chocolate lol). The acidity should also be present, but it has mostly a fruity taste thanks to the sweetness of the coffee, if the sweetness is not present, the acidity predominates and tastes like sour patches to me , this I can't drink at all, when bitterness predominates I can at least make it into a cappuccino and it is ok. So I am not looking to enhance any specific flavor, but to sense all these qualities in a very strong way, so all my attention is driven to what I am drinking. I tend to like very strong flavors, that's why I've been considering trying a ristretto, but I don't think I've ever actually tasted one. I did grow up drinking espresso, but I am new at making it myself, and never paid attention to what I've been served, if it tasted good great, if it tasted bad, glass of water please. I don't think I've ever been served a 2 ounce espresso that I like, when I see a 2 ounce espresso it just looks huge, so I don't think that's what I was exposed too back home (Venzuela). Also, there is no such thing as regular coffee in Venezuela, a regular coffee is usually a double?? espresso with very little microfoamed milk (macchiato??). So this whole world of ristrettos, doubles, triples, singles, is very new to me.
When you say ristrettos won't have the same complexity in terms of balance, would you say the acidity would be more prominent? or bitterness? or would it simply be a different tasting beverage, yet balanced.
I am generally looking for a shot where everything is there, and balanced. Bitterness should be there, and taste more like dark chocolate than something burnt (even though I don't like chocolate lol). The acidity should also be present, but it has mostly a fruity taste thanks to the sweetness of the coffee, if the sweetness is not present, the acidity predominates and tastes like sour patches to me , this I can't drink at all, when bitterness predominates I can at least make it into a cappuccino and it is ok. So I am not looking to enhance any specific flavor, but to sense all these qualities in a very strong way, so all my attention is driven to what I am drinking. I tend to like very strong flavors, that's why I've been considering trying a ristretto, but I don't think I've ever actually tasted one. I did grow up drinking espresso, but I am new at making it myself, and never paid attention to what I've been served, if it tasted good great, if it tasted bad, glass of water please. I don't think I've ever been served a 2 ounce espresso that I like, when I see a 2 ounce espresso it just looks huge, so I don't think that's what I was exposed too back home (Venzuela). Also, there is no such thing as regular coffee in Venezuela, a regular coffee is usually a double?? espresso with very little microfoamed milk (macchiato??). So this whole world of ristrettos, doubles, triples, singles, is very new to me.
When you say ristrettos won't have the same complexity in terms of balance, would you say the acidity would be more prominent? or bitterness? or would it simply be a different tasting beverage, yet balanced.
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I weight my beans prior to grinding with either the HG-One or Lido 3. My goal is to get 0.75 oz for a ristretto using espresso shot glasses. The line indicates 1.0 oz, so I finish my shot below the line for a ristretto.
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Ignore volume output, its too variable, especially when you switch coffees. Weight is the only thing that matters. Modern specialty coffee frequently differs from traditional italian definitions in terms of dose and brew ratio. Don't get caught up in single,double,normale,ristretto. The right recipe is the one that tastes good. See Jim's post on adjusting dose and grind by taste: Espresso 101: How to Adjust Dose and Grind Setting by Taste