An update after a year of ownership:

The M3 is still working and still producing great grinds, but has not held up well. The drive belt slips quite regularly, the grind setting slips quite regularly, the simple friction connection between the drive wheel and shaft slips quite regularly. The bearings on the shaft are shot and noisy. The reservations Lino and Sean expressed when they looked at the construction have been born out.

The fixes for these problems that Versalab has offered have, to my mind, at least, been micky mouse; a series of temporary patches: grommets, sandpaper, glue tubes, and other trivial whatnots that crudely patch whatever else has started to slip around for maybe a few weeks at a time. My feelings towards them is far more colored by the insulting nature of this service than by the initial design flaws; However, I'm not an engineer, and my insult may be misplaced here, perhaps a few drops of loctite is the genius way to fix shot bearings.

Versalab claims that these limitations are not design flaws. Rather they say the grinder was designed for commercially roasted espresso blends. High grown SOs, lighter roasts, and cupping, according to them, is not the proper use for this grinder, and my problems stem from this misuse, not the design. You can all guess how this makes me feel; so again, I cannot comment on how insulted an objective person should be by this statement.

I'm told that the new model has addressed all these problems, and that it will grind a City Roast Guat without falling apart.

another_jim wrote:Versalab claims that these limitations are not design flaws. Rather they say the grinder was designed for commercially roasted espresso blends. High grown SOs, lighter roasts, and cupping, according to them, is not the proper use for this grinder, and my problems stem from this misuse, not the design. You can all guess how this makes me feel; so again, I cannot comment on how insulted an objective person should be by this statement.

Really sorry to hear this. "Commercially roasted espresso blends"? That's pretty lame. In your position, I'd feel equally misused.
________
John

Yeah, that's BS. I'm also not an engineer, but my nose works quite well, so let me run the numbers. Let see, cost, one year, um, limited home use, err, carry the 2, and yep, BS.

In my field (computer science) we'd say "that's not a bug, it's a feature".

another_jim wrote:An update after a year of ownership:

The M3 is still working and still producing great grinds, but has not held up well. The drive belt slips quite regularly, the grind setting slips quite regularly, the simple friction connection between the drive wheel and shaft slips quite regularly. The bearings on the shaft are shot and noisy. The reservations Lino and Sean expressed when they looked at the construction have been born out..

It's always interesting to me how different people experience the same product. Could be different usage patterns. But, I grind both home roasts and commercial and have almost no issues with the M3. I assume you have replaced the belt with the new one? I did have some slipping until that change was made (provided free of charge).

Versalab claims that these limitations are not design flaws. Rather they say the grinder was designed for commercially roasted espresso blends.

I don't like this tendency to revisionist history. There was a similar situation when we were told that the grinder was "meant" to be loaded after it was started. Neither of these "design" considerations appeared in the literature to my memory.

I'm told that the new model has addressed all these problems, and that it will grind a City Roast Guat without falling apart

Didn't know that a new revision of the grinder was proposed.

Have to say though, that for day-to-day trouble free grinding I haven't had anything that really touches the Versalab. And Versalab has consistently offered prompt support to resolve the few issues that have come up.

RapidCoffee wrote:In my field (computer science) we'd say "that's not a bug, it's a feature".

It is an undocumented feature.

But to Jim's remarks, I have never used the Versalab until I visited him. The grinder is novel but my first first-hand impression was not that favorable. It looked more in line with my old Gaggia MDF, more toy than precision machined $1300 grinder. We even had the grind 'slip' while grinding a shot. The adjustment just slowly started turning while grinding. I thought the grind looked superb and the shots tasted wonderful but personally, I would not pay that much for it. I would go with the Mazzer conical.

It has its place in a niche market, it just does not fit into my niche.

another_jim wrote:An update after a year of ownership:

The M3 is still working and still producing great grinds, but has not held up well. The drive belt slips quite regularly, the grind setting slips quite regularly, the simple friction connection between the drive wheel and shaft slips quite regularly. The bearings on the shaft are shot and noisy. The reservations Lino and Sean expressed when they looked at the construction have been born out.

The fixes for these problems that Versalab has offered have, to my mind, at least, been micky mouse; a series of temporary patches: grommets, sandpaper, glue tubes, and other trivial whatnots that crudely patch whatever else has started to slip around for maybe a few weeks at a time. My feelings towards them is far more colored by the insulting nature of this service than by the initial design flaws; However, I'm not an engineer, and my insult may be misplaced here, perhaps a few drops of loctite is the genius way to fix shot bearings.

I'm told that the new model has addressed all these problems, and that it will grind a City Roast Guat without falling apart.

Quick update:

I had not heard of a "new" model of the M3, so checked with Versalab. They confirmed that there is no new model.

Versalab has voluntarily, and for free, offered two updates that address two of the three problems cited above. A new adjustment locking knob and lock knob buffer fixed the grind setting problem. A new belt, solved the belt slipping problem. Both were issues and were addressed.

I have experienced no problems with shaft bearings. Would be interesting to know whether other owners have.

The "temporary patches" mentioned in the quoted post were offered as "work arounds," not solutions, while a longer term solution was developed.

I am puzzled by the comment about the "insulting nature of this service." I experience Versalab as a company that listens carefully to customer feedback and provides solutions to identified problems. That they have provided these fixes free and voluntarily seems to me personally to deserve praise.

hperry wrote:I have experienced no problems with shaft bearings. Would be interesting to know whether other owners have.

I've not had any problems with my Versalab's bearing. Intuitively the design seemed risky- the burrs are a long way from the bearing. I keep looking for eccentricity in the rotation expecting to see something, but it seems to hold up well. It sure grinds better than the Mazz Mini E & Mazz Majors I've compared it to.

When I showed the Versalab grinder to Mark at Synesso he was amazed by the build & grind quality. He basically dismissed my bearing concerns. Looking at the machining he wasn't surprised at all by the asking price.

That said, I think someone could home-brew a better grinder for less money. The prototype grinder I saw at Synesso's shop was pretty simple & there's nothing expensive or complicated about it.

The problems I had were exacerbated, or emerged earlier, since I use the grinder for cupping. Cupping is done with light roasts barely past the first crack using a coarse grind. This exposes the shaft to a lot more lateral forces, and led to the early wear on my bearings. I received the what Versalab calls proper updates, and what I call patches, for the belt and grind setting, and these are hit and miss for cupping. The patch, update, or whatever to reduce bearing stress, a Loktite brand thread glue, worked for about a day.

I spoke to John Bicht prior to buying the grinder and told him I was going to use it for cupping, since the design is very much optimized for this -- for instance, the Mahlkoenig Guatemala cupping grinder retains far more grinds and needs a lot of sacrificial grinding when changing beans. He agreed. When the problems started coming up, he repeatedly told me that the grinder had not been designed for such grinding, just for espresso. He offered to replace the bearings, but not under the warranty; in this context he mentioned a new model with beefed up components. My understanding of his emails is that as far as Versalab is concerned, I've misused the grinder and have voided the warranty.

Maybe it was the bubblewrap showing a lack of the proper awe

I've owned an M3 grinder that was among the earliest ones they made. It's worked flawlessly for me. I probably don't beat mine as hard as Jim does his, but so far I've had no signs of bearing problems and never had the belt slip (I'm still using the original belt--never asked for the alternative one). I did get the lock knob upgrade, which John Bicht was kind enough to install for me. It's hard to account for why different people have had widely different experiences with the company, but in my personal experience I've found Versalab people to be courteous and helpful.

Darryl