timo888 wrote:emphasis added

If you take a look at my Initial Impressions of the Lusso thread, you will see a video of a two-pull extraction, where the first pull was allowed to run to completion, and was then followed by a full second pull which also ran to completion. Recocking the lever does not "play hell with the extraction" if the barista tamps very lightly.

Regards
Timo

I tried several variations on the multi pull but never got good results. I will try the light tamp and full pull to see if it improves the extraction. There could be a difference in the group design between the Elektra and Lusso that favors the second pull. I am still a newbie with the Microcasa and make no pretense of having mastered the machine, only a solid base understanding. The multi pull may just take a little more experimentation and experience to master than I have at this time.

timo888 wrote:emphasis added

If you take a look at my Initial Impressions of the Lusso thread, you will see a video of a two-pull extraction, where the first pull was allowed to run to completion, and was then followed by a full second pull which also ran to completion. Recocking the lever does not "play hell with the extraction" if the barista tamps very lightly.

Regards
Timo

I am a light tamper actually. Your second pull has a lot less viscosity than the first one does. A bottomless portafilter will show you how unruly the extraction becomes unless you play games with workarounds. I think the Lusso would be a better machine if the swept volume of the piston was larger.

-Greg

Have any of you three pulled the first and second pulls into different identical demitasses and blind tasted them?

PC

HB wrote:The second pull tastes dull and thin.

The final third (or the second half, if you're dividing the shot into two sections as you are doing here with the Lusso) of an extraction from a pump machine is relatively dull and thin too, compared to the initial stage extraction. The product in the cup is a blend of emulsions, and the "dull and thin" tastes of the later stages offset the brightness of the early stages. The effect in the cup is a smoothness. For example, S.O. coffees that become strident when pulled at 9 bar fare well on the Lusso at 6+ bar, tapering to 3 bar. Moreover, a finer grind, a very light tamp (and by that I mean hardly any tamp at all), and slight updosing can make the latter stages of the extraction brighter and more intense, if the Lusso's normale smoothness is not to your liking and the ristretto is your baseline for comparison.

Regards
Timo

I think that many pump machine aficionados would be shocked to learn how little tamping is required for ANY of the lever machines. I am a manual lever user and I find that tamping with any more pressure than the tamper itself creates will terminally affect the shot. Shoot there's another sink shot!

I like to think of the light tamp as a lessened repetitive motion strain. The less force the better for later in life. Of course using the lever itself is a repetitive motion strain. Damn, it sounded good in my head! Oh well, carpal tunnel here I come!

On either the MCaL or PVL, I personally prefer the espresso created by a 3-4 second pre-infusion and a single pull. I can live with the short volume shot. Quality over quantity.

Kaffee Bitte wrote:I think that many pump machine aficionados would be shocked to learn how little tamping is required for ANY of the lever machines. I am a manual lever user and I find that tamping with any more pressure that the tamper itself creates will terminally affect the shot.

Agreed & "shocked". I use to grind coarser & tamp the #30 on the Micro Casa a Leva(MCaL). During this learning period with the Ponte Vecchio Lusso (PVL) the finer grind and lighter tamp among other things yielding a better cup. Have slowly been increasing the grind fineness & decreasing the tamp pressure with positive results on the MCaL. Not yet at timo's light tamper pressure.

So far, going over to the lever only side has changed two major concepts. First the 8-10 second pre-infusion. 3-4 seconds has produced consistently better shots. 2nd the #30 tamp is not a requirement. Not a technique concept but an element I no longer get hung up on. Volume. With both these lever machines in my opinion you don't need to pull a 60ml shot from a double basket in 23-30sec to produce a tasty espresso. Thanks to the people on this forum for showing me the correct path to a great lever pulled espresso.

frege wrote:I have adopted the short (3-4 second) preinfusion that you use, and for good, I think. My results have been great.

Frege,

Your video is quite good. I still have a question. Why do you prefer the short pre-infusion? More precisely what do you taste in the short pre-infused shot that you prefer over the 10-sec pi shot? I am planning to try the short PI but would like to know what taste difference to expect.

Also in your video may I suggest that when you do another you include video of you in the actual pull moving of the lever. I suspect new users would like to see your actual movements. EG: how do you grasp the machine? In my pulls I have a two-fisted-love grasp of Tebaldi when we make an espresso. I hold the pf and the lever throughout the entire process.

KS

In my opinion 14-15 g of coffee to 0.5 oz of espresso (i.e. one pull) is too great a brew ratio. The choice therefore is to lower the dose and take one pull, which many of you seem to like better, or to dose fuller and take multiple pulls. I personally don't like smaller doses in the double basket, so if I want a one-pull shot I use the 7-g single basket.

Pulling good two- or three-pull 15g, 1-1.5 oz. doppios on the Ponte Vecchio requires a little practice, and experimenting with the grind, dose, and tamp. But simply giving up is not an option.

PC