gscace wrote:Cool pen. Is that a Namiki Vanishing Point?

Yeah. I used fountain pens in school and college (England) and missed the feel (not to mention the extra legibility) of writing with them. The Pilot is as convenient and mess free as any ballpoint and writes very smoothly indeed.

Endo wrote:Can I come? I'll be the one wearing the carbon-fibre easter bonnet.

Ok, I can let it pass once, but is that really the second time a Vivaldi owner insulted the looks of a Dalla Corte? I don't own either one, but I do remember a thread called "Is the Vivaldi II as ugly as it looks in all the pictures?" on CG from a week or two ago which included the following...

Endo wrote:Subject: Re: Is the Vivaldi II as ugly as it looks in all the pictures?

Posted February 7, 2009 link
Sorry, I got caught up in a little "name calling" after I saw that title (not the first time for such a title either).

I guess no proud parent likes to hear their baby called ugly.

Given that, can we get focus on the coffee you can make with the DC mini? I hear the Vivaldi is a great machine, so if the reviewers comment that the DC does some things better, that should be viewed as a compliment for the DC, not an insult to the Vivaldi.

I think the info on the DC Mini on this thread has been very interesting (especially the stuff posted by those who have used one).

HA! Damn you evil search button.

I'm just teasing. I obviously need to add more smileys but 3 seems to be the maximum.

The grouphead design on the DC Mini seems like a great design and I understand it looks that way for good reason. Hey, if the E-61 can be popular, who knows. But if they could somehow polish it up like a saturated group like a Synesso, that would be sweet.

If I could stick that big, stable "pineapple" on my Vivaldi I would do it.

By the way, I told my wife our baby had a funny head when he was born too. So it's not the first time i've been in trouble (no more smiley's left...sorry:-)

another_jim wrote:Yeah. I used fountain pens in school and college (England) and missed the feel (not to mention the extra legibility) of writing with them. The Pilot is as convenient and mess free as any ballpoint and writes very smoothly indeed.

I'm severely left-handed, which is my excuse for practically illegible hand-writing. I spent considerable time in early high-school trying to find a pen-type that would help me to write at least well enough that my teachers would bother to read (and properly grade) my tests.

I settled on fountain pens - they did not run away from me like a ball-point does, nor smear as badly as a pencil. I am no pen collector; I keep a cheap Parker in my bag, and have a gold-nibbed Pelikan for my office. There is nothing like a gold nib:


Wow, how's that for thread drift...

Endo wrote:I'm just teasing. I obviously need to add more smileys but 3 seems to be the maximum.

Actually, a post that is either informative, helpful, kind, or even somewhat funny would be a lot better than smileys.

another_jim wrote:Actually, a post that is either informative, helpful, kind, or even somewhat funny would be a lot better than smileys.

Nib.

Hey - why not leave the pens behind and get back to the real techie stuff?

I haven't seen ONE curve yet on this thread and that made me feel bad so here is one comparing the flow performance of two vibe pumps.

edit - 5/13/09 - replaced image with one showing a more correct flow of the FOT 1106 @ 9.0 bar.

The DC most definitely appears to be fitted with the 1106 model. On another note, a more complete (and fine) disassembly text of this OPV is contained here: The OPV.pdf
What has been termed as a plastic ball in this OPV is actually glass (according to FOT) and I have successfully operated this OPV (with an Ulka pump) in Silvia for years.

Given this pump curve, the OPV on mine was definitely bad, since it was bypassing like crazy ( the noise was worse when I was making espresso than when I was running on empty). Now it quiets down at espresso range.

I have two volunteers for the taste test, more are welcome.

HB wrote:Actually this shows an important point that Salvatore Espresso has argued for years: An OPV isn't needed at espresso flow rates IF you install a Fluid-o-Tech pump, thanks to its lower pressure curve. But at ristretto flow rates, an OPV will still be necessary unless you want ~10.5 bar extraction pressure.

Don't forget about ~11.5 bar singles with the FOT.

my favorite tamper

That is some serious barista bling.

Hi,

has none of you noticed, that the "carbon fibre" is a plastic imitation?

The thing in geneene's hand is real. You see the difference, if you have a closer look.

Noticed it the first time I saw a picture of one. A real carbon fiber cover would add more than a few dollars to the cost but look much better.

Not to mention a complete waste of technology. The carbon fibre tamper is a perfect example of Barista 'bling'

anrubo wrote:Hi,

has none of you noticed, that the "carbon fibre" is a plastic imitation?

The thing in geneene's hand is real. You see the difference, if you have a closer look.

There was no need to "notice." It had already been noted in the only comprehensive review to date, which was Bella Barista's (Page 2).

DC Espresso Test

"Experiment soothes the mind" -- Francis Bacon

Sherman Chong and Brandon Cline joined me for a day of espresso triangle tests between a pair of Elektra Semis and the DC Mini.

We used four coffees, the Sidamo Bonko SO at 14.5 grams on the Elektras and 14.8 grams on the DC at normale pours. Intelligentsia's Black Cat at 15.1 for the Elektra's and 15.5 for the DC at ristretto pours, Metropolis's Redline at 14 .7 for the Elektra and 15 for the DC, and a Guatemal Oriente DP at 15.6 for the Elektras and 16 for the DC at 3/4 pours (i.e between ristretto and normale). The temperatures on the DC were set at 92 to 94.5 C, higher for the higher doses. The flush counts on the Elektra were set similar, at 2.5 to 4 seconds past boil.

The thick shower screen was used for the DC

I picked the doses and temperatures for each machine independently yesterday to give what I thought was the most representative taste. The doses and grind setting were slightly tweaked after the first set of three shots, and if that set was way off, the result was not reported. In all we managed 22 recorded trials between the three of us.

The shots were done simultaneously. The cups were swirled to give a uniform (and anonymous) crema color. An eyedropper was used when necessary to equalize the amount in each cup. The cups were placed on a lazy Susan and spun to blind the tasting, We each sampled the three shots and each marked which one we thought was the odd man out and whether it was worse, better, or just different.

Privately, us HB testers have been thinking that the Elektras would spank the Mini, but that was not the case. Instead the results were a complete wash:

DC Mini: Odd Man Out: 6/22, better 0, different 1, worse 5
Elektra 1: Odd man Out: 7/22, better 1, different 2, worse 5
Elektra 2: Odd Man Out: 6/22, better 3, different 2, worse 1
No odd man out: 3/22

To give some idea on how close the taste of the three shots was ... we three only agreed once on which shot was the odd man out, and that result was scratched due to it being caused by a bad pour.

Elektra number 2 got more better than worse results, but given our inability to tell the machines apart, this is a non-result. As far as tasting acumen goes, of the six odd man out picks for the DC, each of the testers had two. None of the testers showed any sign of being able to reliably distinguish any of the three machines.

We talk a lot about how different machines are. But those of us who have done blind taste testing know that once the machines and coffees are good quality, this is about very small differences indeed. The formal Titan grinder tests were very close to a wash. The informal "beat the Robur" tests were statistically insignificant and relatively minuscule except for a few ill favored grinders. And that was just about the clearest of the taste tests. Most of the other stuff has been even closer to no difference.

The simple act of setting up a test like this forces one to squeeze consistent performance out of each tested item before the testing starts. That usually eliminates almost all the things that were contributing to the initial ideas about dramatic differences.

In the DC Mini case, the usual high dose, low dose distinctions between coffees apply, but the dosing range (using the fat screen) is fairly narrow, basically all useful doses create a mild collision with the shower screen. 14 3/4 grams is about the lowest useful dose and 16 the highest. The most representative tasting temperature selection ran between 92 and 94, using a setting proportional to dose.

This test was done with the OPV defeated (turned all the way in to max pressure). I'm fairly sure my OPV was hinky, but given the huge improvement in shot quality I got when doing this, I doubt the 9.5 bar setting the machine is delivered at in the US is even remotely close to right.

The final conclusion goes to Ken Fox -- "It's the Coffee, stupid." The Bonko was the big winner, Black Cat and Red Line tied for second, and my rather misconceived Oriente cappa blend was least and last.

Hi Jim, that is very interesting. I wish I could have been there to take part! I do have a question though - does it tend to be easier to pull shots on a machine that you own vs a machine you are testing? In other words did the Elektras have an advantage since you have so much experience with them or is it true that once you've pulled as many shots as you have on the Mini that the advantage is pretty much neutralized? Or perhaps once a barista has pulled enough shots on enough machines all elite machines are easy to adjust to quickly?

It's an excellent question, and the sad answer is that one cannot know for certain. I was happy with the Elektra when I reviewed it, but never discovered that doubles were significantly better if there was no contact with the shower screen. This was a bonus I got after a year of ownership.

No good discovery goes unpunished. The showerscreen on E61s is no big deal, and it appears on the DC contact with the screen is an absolute necessity. So avoiding showerscreens can hurt on these machines. The low dosing wisdom we got from fancy SOs may not apply to classic blends, etc, etc.

In terms of learning how to use a machine or grinder. This may be illuminating ...

I spent Wednesday and Thursday setting up the test, spending the bulk of the time with the DC. I no longer wanted clear shots, god shots or anything other sort of spectacular wonder shot. I wanted consistent, representative shots that tasted exactly like I knew the blends I would be using should taste. I used my own regular coffees and Red Line and Black Cat since those are the ones I know inside out (the Oriente was a a loser in this regard, since I use it only for Cappas, and I forgot how poor an impression a toast, caramel and nut only shot makes drunk straight; we only ran one shot of it in the end).

The result was that the test delivered exactly what it was supposed to on each of the machines -- Bonko, Black Cat and Red Line -- no more and no less.

da gino wrote: I do have a question though - does it tend to be easier to pull shots on a machine that you own vs a machine you are testing? In other words did the Elektras have an advantage since you have so much experience with them or is it true that once you've pulled as many shots as you have on the Mini that the advantage is pretty much neutralized?

da gino -

My experience up to today has consisted of about 16 months of working on a Silvia, and 3 hours on a LM 2 group machine during one of the Intelligentsia barista classes. During the course of the day, I learned that Brandon has been using an Expobar Pulser for a few years, but I don't know what other machines he has used, so I'll leave it to him to respond. All three of us pulled shots on both Elektras and the DC.

IMHO, it was just as easy to pull shots with these machines as it is with my Silvia. The DC is push-button volumetric, so the hardest part was knowing which button to push. The Elektras were less familiar to me, as this was my first time using a HX, but learning how to do the cooling flush came pretty easily, and I didn't notice Jim pushing me out of the way, so I hope that my shots weren't that bad.

Jim took the step of weighing, dosing and tamping each of the baskets for all three machines and for all of the trials. Given his experience and the test parameters, I couldn't think of a better way to proceed.

FWIW, I pulled a couple of shots on the DC - grind, dose, tamp, brew - after the official test ended, and found it KISS-easy.

There are two BIG learning points that I took away from today's session:

First - it's a hell of a lot easier to rate binary "different/same" than it is to assign "better/worse". Jim made a good point that, if the difference converges with your personal preferences (e.g. you prefer bitter), you can assign a positive value to that difference (e.g. "this has a good bite"). However, if the difference diverges from your personal preferences, you can just as easily assign a negative value (e.g. "this tastes like canned monkey ass").

Second - The actual noticeable difference wasn't always mind-blowingly obvious. There were several instances when I felt like we were splitting hairs, and I recall thinking that I would've been happy with any of the shots. I was reminded that this wasn't about better or worse - it was about same or different.

This kind of testing seems extremely difficult to perform in a home setting. I think Jim referred to it as a 'triangle test'. Google provides some information that helped me to better understand the terminology. Despite the fact that we had a pair of Elektra semis, I had the impression that there were enough variances between them with regard to age and usage to suggest the possibility that they weren't producing the same shots. Then again, this was just my impression, and I could be amazingly wrong here.

I guess the only way to resolve this is to use two brand-new machines. Is there room in the HB testing budget for a couple of new Semis that can be sent from tester to tester?

With all said and done, much thanks to Jim for hosting and doing all of the legwork while I sat around, drank his espresso, and made a big mess of his kitchen. Please send more machines to Jim for testing.

-s.