King Seven wrote:Looking forward to your review of this - it's been a couple of years since I used one of these and I thought it was great, having hated (due to a complete lack of skills) the Factory. Found it a very easy machine to work with.

All I can say is... more more more!

I agree. I had no problems pulling wonderful shots from the machine. Even a pump driven machine usually takes a couple of weeks (for a home user) to really get comfortable with. In two days I was banging out consistent shots.

In case you are wondering how much I am enjoying this machine, I ran out of coffee! I am completely utterly out of coffee. I was going along merrily pulling shots then GRRRRRmmmWRRRRRR goes the grinder . I have several pounds in transit but I have to hit the not so local cafe to get something to hold me over for another two days. 180 mile round trip drive for a pound of good coffee. You guys that have local cafes don't know how lucky you are.

Another big post on shots (and video) this afternoon.

cannonfodder wrote:Gaggia and WLL boast of a ten minute heat up. Sorry, that is a little ambitious. From a cold start with the boiler filled to the Max indicator on the sight glass, I get an initial heat cycle of 8 minutes. After 10 the group is only warm to the touch and the portafilter is stone cold. A more realistic time from power on would be 20 minutes. Gaggia is unclear if that 10 minute heat cycle is from power on or 10 minutes after the initial heat up. If they are using the later measurement, than I will agree with the claimed heating cycle.

But couldn't you simply pull a warming flush after the heating element light indicates 'boiler water is now at temp' ?

Regards
Timo

Sorry to be so clueless but I'm still confused as to how the water enters the group. Gravity ? Outside water pressure ?

Is the pump for auto-filling the boiler ?

Thanks!

keraba wrote:Sorry to be so clueless but I'm still confused as to how the water enters the group. Gravity ? Outside water pressure ?

Is the pump for auto-filling the boiler ?

Dave hasn't given us the entire skinny on how the brew water path works yet.... and there is no pump.

timo888 wrote:But couldn't you simply pull a warming flush after the heating element light indicates 'boiler water is now at temp' ?

Regards
Timo

Yes you can but it would take a lot of flushes to heat the portafilter. I set the machine on a timer and have it turn on automatically in the morning. That way it is hot and ready to go.

I have noticed that a key indicator is a flash boil. If I do a flush and the first two seconds do not flash boil, it needs more heat time. After 8 hours, it needs a lot of flushing to bring it back down to brew temperature.

I am finding that almost every trick that applies to a 'normal' heat exchanger works well on the Achille.

jesawdy wrote:Dave hasn't given us the entire skinny on how the brew water path works yet.... and there is no pump.

No electric pump, everything works of the lever action.

I am unsure of exactly how the pump action works. What I can say is that there is a supply line that runs from the heat exchanger to the group piston chamber. There are another two lines that run from that chamber to the heat exchanger coil in the top of the boiler. One is obviously a supply and the other a return.

Those two lines are suspended in the neck of the group. The group is not a solid mass like an E61 group, but hollow. If you look at the parts diagram you will see that the group is two pieces and see the two tubes that run from the boiler to the group. Those HX lines are suspended in the neck.

Here are a couple of photos, you can see the HX line in the boiler. The mechanics will have to wait a few days. I am out of town so I can not disassemble the group to see the inner workings. Rest assured, I will be looking into the heart of the machine.

Not to diminish in any way the Achille, which seems to be an excellent machine, but here's a photo of the Ponte Vecchio Export, complete with a very functional (albeit small) cup warmer, boiler cover, and suction cup feet. This is a very old (30-yr) design, that never became very popular for some reason (perhaps its a bit of an ugly duckling?).



PC

Like the cup warmer. I do the same thing with my Factory. I just put my cup over the boiler fill cap. With the Achille I just pull a shot into the cup to heat it, just like my two other HX machines.

It is curious why someone has not thought of sticky feet until now. Suction cup feet would be interesting. They would work good on a non-porous countertop but may prove to be a bit slippery on a wood or textured surface.

Pulling Shots

Now we are getting into uncharted waters. The heat exchanger lever machine is something I have never used. Keeping in mind that it is a heat exchanger lever, I approached pulling shots like I would with any other heat exchanger system.

The first step was the cooling flush. After the prerequisite heat time you do get about half a lever stroke of flash boil. I have found that if the machine has been on for under one hour you need two lever pulls to flush down to brew temperature. Between one hour and three you need three pulls to flush, longer than 3 hours I needed 4 or more flushes. I would flush down until the water dance stopped and pull one more lever stroke, lock and pull immediately. More testing and observation is required, but my cursory test using the most sensitive thermal testing device I possess (my tongue) tells me that the recovery time is very, very fast.

You may be wondering, "What does a cooling flush from a lever machine look like?" Thanks for asking, below is a three pull cooling flush video.


Now onto the portafilter. The Achille uses a commercial sized 58mm portafilter and basket. The double basket very closely resembles a La Marzocco ridgeless. The basket is the same height and diameter but with a slightly more tapered base. In the photo below I have the stock double basket on top of a La Marzocco ridgeless double.


I am unsure of the basket capacity. My spider sense tells me it holds 17 grams whereas the LM holds 18. I was having so much fun with the machine that I ran out of coffee. That is kind of like test driving a car and enjoying it so much you run it out of gas.

The portafilter is of commercial weight and size. The portafilter is chrome plated brass with a screw on double spout. You can remove the double spout and replace it with a single. It uses the same thread as the Faema style portafilters. The black plastic pearl shaped handle provides a secure grip while pulling shots and it does unscrew so you could have some custom wood handles turned for it. Nice striped ebony would look wonderful on the machine.

The locking lugs are smaller than those on my Faema, so I can not use my bottomless portafilter. The locking lugs are placed at an off angle as compared to most machines. This lets you lock the portafilter in as you would with any prosumer machine. That was a minor nit that use to drive me crazy when switching from my Faema to my lever. I kept smacking the portafilter into the grouphead because I got in the habit of an off angle insert with a right twist to center.

Faema, Achille, Factory (51mm millennium group)

The next question became how much water a single lever stroke dispenses. With no portafilter in the machine, I get two ounces by volume of water. The coffee will absorb some water so a single stroke of the lever will be less than two ounces. To counter I adopted a quarter stroke, raise, full stroke technique for pulling doubles. Thanks to the standard 58mm portafilter basket, you can now pull a true double shot.

So armed with these facts I started pulling shots. I retained my normal dose and level technique as well as grinder setting for the first shot. I ran a flush, locked in the portafilter, made a 1/4 pull, raised and pulled the lever. The grind was a little off, but close. On my Gaggia Factory lever I have to fine the grind us substantially, the Achille only took a small adjustment.

Half dozen shots later and I have gotten it dialed in and am pulling some wonderful shots. They are thick and buttery, crema laden shots with a nice clean flavor. Since those initial shots I have become more impressed the shots. I am getting the best of both worlds, the thick buttery mouth feel of a lever along with the brighter cleaner characteristics of a pump machine and all crema shots.

"But what do the shots look like and are they really pulling all crema?" Fair question, I am glad you asked. Below is a photo of a 2oz double in a 6oz cup that is heading for a cappuccino as well as a shot video. Keep in mind these are all within the first week with the Achille using home roast. As time progresses I will probably replace them with some pro roasted coffee shots.

cannonfodder wrote:It is a removable plastic basin, and small as all levers are. I am working on a post detailing the drip tray this morning, my first nit pick of the machine.

The Cremina's drip tray holds quite a lot for a lever. The Achille seems more like the Peppina in its drip tray volume. But at least it has a removable plastic basin. If the Achille requires cooling flushes between shots (looking forward to that piece of info --it would determine whether I'd consider buying an Achille) then the lack of an adequate drip tray is more than a nitpick, IMO. But if the Achille doesn't need cooling flushes, it's not too important.

Regards
Timo

cannonfodder wrote:Yes you can but it would take a lot of flushes to heat the portafilter. I set the machine on a timer and have it turn on automatically in the morning. That way it is hot and ready to go.

I have noticed that a key indicator is a flash boil. If I do a flush and the first two seconds do not flash boil, it needs more heat time. After 8 hours, it needs a lot of flushing to bring it back down to brew temperature.

I am finding that almost every trick that applies to a 'normal' heat exchanger works well on the Achille.

On my Cremina, a single flush brings the group to temperature, and then I get two, maybe three shots before it needs to be cooled down. Why do you think the Achille would need many flushes to come up to temperature? Do you get a sour shot if, immediately after the boiler light indicates ready, you do a 2 ounce warming flush, and then pull a shot?

Regards
Timo

The shot in the video was actually a little large and had started to blond. That cup holds 3oz, that was about 2.5oz on the pull. I should have stopped pulling about three seconds before I hit the end of the lever stroke but working a lever and video at the same time can be tricky.

In the cooling flush video, the Achille seems to be wobbling forward and backward on its base when you pull the lever. Is the base lifting slightly off the counter, or is the stainless steel sheet flexing where it joins the base?

Regards
Timo

peacecup wrote:... here's a photo of the Ponte Vecchio Export, complete with a very functional (albeit small) cup warmer, boiler cover, and suction cup feet. This is a very old (30-yr) design, that never became very popular for some reason (perhaps its a bit of an ugly duckling?).

I think the PV Export looks quite elegant, if a little boxy. Certainly not a Peacock. But the electric plug beneath the drip tray is an aspect of the design that could be improved.
Regards
Timo

Lots of good questions.

timo888 wrote:The Cremina's drip tray holds quite a lot for a lever.

Timo

How many oz does the Cremina hold?

The Achille does require flushing between each shot. I have not adjusted the boiler on my unit yet. The boiler does run hot even for a HX. My initial heat up yielded a boiler cycle of 1.1 to 1.3. After an all night power on the pressurestat had settled into a 1.3-1.45 cycle. That is a bit hot and hence the pre shot flushing. You can see a flush in the video a couple of posts up.

The plus is non stop steam, the down is lots of flushing water. I have not made any adjustments to the machine yet. I want time to get to know the machine as is. That way I can distinguish between a mistake on my end and a change in cup due to an adjustment. I do plan on adjusting the Pstat down, that information will be posted once I have made my observations.

timo888 wrote:On my Cremina, a single flush brings the group to temperature, and then I get two, maybe three shots before it needs to be cooled down. Why do you think the Achille would need many flushes to come up to temperature? Do you get a sour shot if, immediately after the boiler light indicates ready, you do a 2 ounce warming flush, and then pull a shot?

If I pull a shot after the initial heat up, I do get a sour shot. Keep in mind, even after a flush, the portafilter has not come to temperature. I can pull a flush with the PF in the machine and put my hand in the water as it comes from the spouts. It is hot, but not hot enough. That big brass PF needs a lot of heat.

timo888 wrote:In the cooling flush video, the Achille seems to be wobbling forward and backward on its base when you pull the lever. Is the base lifting slightly off the counter, or is the stainless steel sheet flexing where it joins the base?

The wobbling in the video is the back of the base moving while I pull the lever. When pulling a shot you grasp both the lever and portafilter handle to help steady the machine. Keep in mind, the lever on the Achille puts up a fair amount of resistance even with no portafilter. If you watch the shot video you can see a little movement when I pull the shot, I momentarily loosen my portafilter hand and the back raised under pressure.

I have not noticed any separation between the plastic base and the stainless pedestal but I have been concentrating on the shots not the base. I will confirm.

The Cremina drip tray holds 8oz. However, since you have to tilt the front of the tray up before you can lift the tray out, the effective maximum before you start spilling is no more than 5oz.

Regards
Timo

The wobbling in the video is the back of the base moving while I pull the lever.

The video seems to show about 1/2 oz of coffee being poured before the machine moves during your lever pull. I don't understand where this coffee is from if the lever pull does not begin until the wobble.

Did you say you get a full 2-oz shot from 17g, with a 1/4 pull pre-infusionand one full lever pull?

PC

cannonfodder wrote:No electric pump, everything works of the lever action.

Ok, so is the boiler refilled like a Pavoni - letting it cool, opening it and pouring in water ?

keraba wrote:Ok, so is the boiler refilled like a Pavoni - letting it cool, opening it and pouring in water ?

The boiler is filled that way, but the reservoir for brew water sitting on top of the machine can be filled at any time. See the Fill It Up entry on page 2 of this thread.

Regards
Timo

timo888 wrote:The Cremina drip tray holds 8oz. However, since you have to tilt the front if the tray up before you can lift the tray out, the effective maximum before you start spilling is no more than 5oz.

Regards
Timo

Achille holds 10oz to the top, 8 gives enough room to remove the plastic tray and empty it without spilling it everywhere. So I guess the Cremina has a smaller drip tray than the Achille.