Dan, that was a very informative post! Thanks!

Is the graph you showed from a three-pump flush?

How about making a graph that shows the suggested amount of flushing for

1. Just reached operating temp
2. On for 20 minutes
3. On for an hour or more.

That would be a great resource for new owners!

Henry

hbuchtel wrote:Dan, that was a very informative post! Thanks!

Is the graph you showed from a three-pump flush?

How about making a graph that shows the suggested amount of flushing for

1. Just reached operating temp
2. On for 20 minutes
3. On for an hour or more.

That would be a great resource for new owners!

Henry

I have that information in the 'official' buyers guide. That will be on line around next weekend.

It is also in a prior post but with 11 pages of posts, I am having trouble finding it. I will paste into this response when I find it.

GreatDane wrote:I have an observation and a question. None of the reviews have really commented on the basket size. From what I understand the Achille takes a standard 58mm basket. Cannonfodder pointed this out early in the review, but none of you have said much about the increased volume of coffee for the shots. So is it a non-issue? Most lever machines take from 45mm-51mm baskets. Can you talk about basket size? What are your thoughts and experiences. Does it require a harder pull? I know Cannonfodder had a more difficult time with the single basket shots.

Les

I have hit on that in a couple of posts.

Cannonfodder wrote:My spider sense was correct, 17 grams. I ran three doses using my 'normal' technique. No scoops, nothing fancy, I just dose until it feels correct. 17 grams on all three, the portafilter locks in with no group imprint on the puck surface. I up dosed to 18 grams, the puck shows a very light imprint of the shower screen screw so I would be confident in saying a 16-17 gram dose is just right.

The increased dose may be a big part of the forgiveness factor of the Achille. The increased amount of coffee simply allows you to pull a full 2oz shot much easier. The smaller basket sizes of other levers tend to be hard pressed to pull much over 1.5oz before it goes blond. There are no fancy tricks involved in the dose and tamp. You use the Achille as you would any 58mm pump machine. The Achille will even take a triple basket without chopping the portafilter as Dan noted in an earlier post.

The Achille has a slightly shorter handle than my Factory. That translates into slightly more pressure on the lever during a pull. I do not believe the added coffee volume of the 58mm basket has much to with the added force required. When using KarlSchneider's Cremina, the pressure required to pull a double felt the same. The lever on the Cremina is very close to the same length.

The single basket was less forgiving. The Achille basket is shallow and only holds 8 grams of coffee. I was never able to get more than a .5oz shot before it went blond. I do have a single basket that came with my Isomac that is slightly deeper. I get a better shot from that basket. I can pull a 1oz single from it with no problems. While the Isomac basket appears to hold a little more coffee, I would suspect the difference between them has more to do with basket geometry than basket volume.

Does that answer your question?

Yes that answers my questions. Thanks for responding to that specific issue.

Les

HB wrote:Pump displaces approximately two ounces; recording stopped when flow slowed at ~17 seconds

Notice in both cases the temperature is rising unabated.

...
PS: If anyone has closing questions about the Achille, please speak up. Dave and I are wrapping up the review for an early December publication.

Dan,
Could you please clarify the 17 second graph? You mentioned that extractions longer than 25 seconds might benefit from turning the machine off (since the heating element kicks on mid-shot causing the temperature of the water to rise). If I'm reading the 17-second graph correctly (?) after 17 seconds the temperature jumps to 210 at 1.25 bar. This is the temperature of the water hitting the puck? Are you able to do a 25-second graph (analogous to the Elektra Thermo/over-the-lip) to show Achille brew temperature at 1.25 and 1.00 bar? That comparison of the Elektra and Achille would be informative.

Regards
Timo

One last question, does refilling the reservoir change the amount of flushing required?

Thanks,

Henry

HB wrote:The thermofilter's flow rate is faster than 60mls in 25 seconds, so I cannot plot the curve on that timescale. I can create an over-the-lip plot, but I don't think they're comparable across machines, other than to say "the temperature for both machines move in direction X when I do Y".

Let's say we were intending a 26-second pull at a target temperature of 202°F with the pressure at factory setting or lowered to 1.0 as you have done, to prevent a really high spike. Judging from your graph at either pressure setting, for the first half of the pull, the water is below desired temperature and for the second half the water is above desired temperature. Not sure from your data how high the temperature would be at 26 seconds since the graph cuts off at 17 seconds. The flow rate of your thermofilter's pseudopuck coincides with the minimum number of seconds a shot needs to qualify as espresso according to the standard definition.

Can we infer from the Achille's rising intra-shot temperature profile that the designers intended users to pull shots in relatively shorter time with the Achille?

Or do we infer that the designers considered average temperature over the duration of the shot the important consideration?

Potential purchasers would benefit from temperature plot that extended out to the deep end of the standard definition of espresso, i.e. 26 seconds, and it would be a valuable objective addition to a thorough Bench Review. If the themofilter cannot do it, over-the-lip would suffice. At factory setting and at 1.0, to complement the existing chart would be ideal.
The plot wouldn't be used to compare dissimilar machines, but it would give users a sense of the Achille's intra-shot temperature span at both ends of the espresso shot-time spectrum.

Regards
Timo

HB wrote:Thermofilters are great for fine-tuning your flush routine, confirming repeatability, or calibrating an espresso machine to a desired brew temperature. But I'm no longer convinced the shape of temperature curve is really all that revealing. Case in point: Jim's Elektra Semiautomatica plots would send Schomer disciples running in terror, and yet he dedicated most of the writeup's appendix to the question, "Why is the Elektra Semiautomatica So Good?"

What I learned from the Achille's temperature profiles was that it's very HX-centric and has almost no thermal memory. That helped me fine-tune my routine by paying very careful attention to the rebound time. You'll see in the video how I hustle to lock and load in ten seconds. Dave lounged in front of the machine in his video. I thought, "Wow, I bet that was one burnt shot."

Yes, but in Jim's humpbacked whale of a profile, the temperature does not spike into boiling water territory. Jim's data on the Elektra SA serves to underscore the question I am asking: what happens to the temperature of the Achille when the shot goes past 17 seconds.... to 26 seconds... or even out to ~30 seconds? (i.e. the WBC and Italian standard mentioned in the Scace Thermofilter bench review).

Regards
Timo