Why do expensive espresso machines need restoration so soon? - Page 2

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
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Marshall
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#11: Post by Marshall »

Almico wrote:I am finding that to be true. Espresso machine service seems to fall under the black arts.
SCAA is organizing a Technicians Guild with a standardized certification program. Stay tuned.http://www.scaa.org/chronicle/2016/05/0 ... ans-guild/.
Marshall
Los Angeles

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Peppersass
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#12: Post by Peppersass »

Anything with moving parts and hot/cold liquids running through it is bound to need periodic maintenance.

Espresso machine gaskets, washers, springs, swivel joints, ball bearings, switches, lights, probes and such wear out with use over time or get fouled by mineral deposits, regardless of how much the machine cost to build or how it was priced. The more expensive machines use higher quality parts, so they tend to wear out more slowly than the cheaper parts used in less expensive machines. But they will wear out and will need maintenance.

Machines that are regularly and properly maintained never need restoration. The machines you've seen online that do require restoration have been abused through heavy use, have not been maintained and/or have been sitting in storage (or out in the elements), neglected for years. It's actually the more expensive machines that can be restored after such treatment. The cost of restoring a cheap machine usually isn't worth it because too many parts have to be replaced or the chassis and cover are beyond repair.

As for why some espresso machines are very expensive, it's a combination of a very small market, a mostly hand-built product, many custom-manufactured parts (i.e., not off-the-shelf) and superior materials (e.g., stainless steel boilers, tubing and covers, braided hoses, high-duty cycle solenoids, and so forth.) Lots of thick metal parts.

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JohnB.
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#13: Post by JohnB. »

MCALheaven wrote:Unlike your car, which has a planned service schedule and even a detailed service manual you can purchase, espresso machines typically offer little or no maintenance info to the end user.
No idea what LM, Slayer or Synesso offer but Kees put together a very detailed 60 page service manual for the Speedster.Comes with the machine when you buy it new & they will send it to any Speedster owner at no charge.
LMWDP 267

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#14: Post by Nick Name »

While I think car/motorcycle analogies have as much to do with coffee as horoscopes, if you people (Americans, I know you love your cars :wink: ) really insist, I'll have to point out that I've never seen a car that didn't need maintenance in under 30 years. Let's face it, most people change their car to a new one in less than 10 years...?
Buy that Ferrari/Lambourghini and just try to drive it for 10 years without changing the oils etc... :lol:

But I think it's a good thing that these more expensive (and also most mid-level) machines are designed in the manner that it's even possible to repair them. Today we live in a world where you're supposed to buy new stuff every 2-5 years. We should be happy that we have some isolated areas where things can last half a lifetime if taken care properly.

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Randy G.
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#15: Post by Randy G. »

nuketopia wrote:Also, there's people on sites like this who steadfastly tweak and work on stuff in search of perfection, far in excess of what is needed to simply produce a cup of coffee.
There are exponentially more people who are happy to wallow in mediocrity never searching for better. The nature of a "site like this" has no place in the happy little world in which they live, with a big red can of pre-ground coffee on their shelf.

The famous dictum apparently uttered by Socrates at his trial, "The unexamined life is not worth living," can just as easily be applied to a cup of coffee.
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done

nuketopia
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#16: Post by nuketopia replying to Randy G. »


ROFLMAO.

Ok - you gotta admit that's a little over the top.

Simon345
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#17: Post by Simon345 »

Randy G. wrote:There are exponentially more people who are happy to wallow in mediocrity never searching for better. The nature of a "site like this" has no place in the happy little world in which they live, with a big red can of pre-ground coffee on their shelf.

The famous dictum apparently uttered by Socrates at his trial, "The unexamined life is not worth living," can just as easily be applied to a cup of coffee.



Good point, actually reminds me of something Robert Plant mentioned a while back : "And as we wind on down the road. Our shadows taller than our souls.There walks a lady we all know. Who shines white light and wants to show. How everything still turns to gold. And if you listen very hard. The tune will come to you at last. When all is one and one is all. To be a rock and not to roll"

I think Plant's line of thinking has significant implications for espresso production, and even milk based drinks in some cases

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AssafL
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#18: Post by AssafL »

In some parts of the world running an expensive (or cheap) machine for a year or two on tap water and it will need a full rebuild. Many of the rebuild pictures on HB show much scale and citric acid baths....

Water chemistry and scale care not what the machine cost.
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

NoBurnCoffeeTristan
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#19: Post by NoBurnCoffeeTristan »

This is exactly why I typically just go with a single cup serve coffee machine. They're just too reliable.

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Almico (original poster)
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#20: Post by Almico (original poster) »

Randy G. wrote:There are exponentially more people who are happy to wallow in mediocrity never searching for better. The nature of a "site like this" has no place in the happy little world in which they live, with a big red can of pre-ground coffee on their shelf.

The famous dictum apparently uttered by Socrates at his trial, "The unexamined life is not worth living," can just as easily be applied to a cup of coffee.
Ah, but the key word could be "happy" Randy. Who are "we" to call it wallowing? My father could never tell the difference between a Brooks Bros shirt and one from K-Mart. Who's cursed, me or him?

Another wise person once said "the good is the enemy of the best". While I understand that sentiment perfectly, I've also come to believe the obsession for the best can be the enemy of contentment and satisfaction (and cost a lot of money). At some point a person just has to say "this is good enough for me", or they will never be happy.

I had an audio obsession for years. I built amplifiers and speakers systems and custom crossovers...I tried tubes and solid state and electrostatics and horn compression drivers. I got equipment to measure frequency response all over my room and added base traps and diffusion panels where necessary.

I finally discovered the error of my ways. I was looking for every minute deficiency in my system instead of hearing what was right with the sound. I finally settled for a system that measured poorly, but sounded great to my ears. Once I allowed myself to relax and just hear the music, I knew I found what I was looking for. After chasing that sound for more years than I care to mention, I haven't bought a single component or made a single tweak in 10 years. I'm happy.

The same principle applies to coffee. I'm sure there are better machines than my ECM Giotto and better grinders that my Pharos, but I've got under $1000 invested in my coffee set up and I'm pretty happy with it.

Are my coffee and audio system the best they can be, probably not. But it would cost me $1000s to improve my coffee and $10,000s to improve my audio system ever so slightly. It seems the laws of diminishing returns apply as much to coffee as other hobbies. And I'm enjoying my gearhead semi-retirement.

But I digress...