Procon pump repair/overhaul.. - Page 2

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
gor (original poster)
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#11: Post by gor (original poster) »

First roadblock encountered:

Went down to the local bearing supplier to get a replacement bearing.. not possible at this time was the reply. The reason given was that it was not a standard sized bearing, ID 11mm and OD 30mm. I could use an off the shelf one with ID 10mm and OD 30mm but that would require the shaft to be machined to make the bearing fit on the end. That could be the only way for it to be done if I don't find a suitable bearing off the shelf. Anyway, I will keep looking.

I pulled apart a second procon and the bits virtually fell out! I will re-asemble after I acid dip the bits and will give it a long term test on the work bench. Will let you know how it performs, especially since the liner, vanes and bearing end plates were loose fitting to begin with! I know that the loose fit is not due to wear and tear because the liner also slipped out very easily from the housing. Normally this has the tightest fit and is difficult to remove without damage.

Testing the second one I pulled apart (the loose one) would be interesting I think, as that would show if the performance of the pump is decreased with worn or loose fitting vanes. Will keep you posted.

Cheers.

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civ
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#12: Post by civ »

Hello:
gor wrote: ... reason given was that it was not a standard sized bearing, ID 11mm and OD 30mm.
Not able to say 'impossible', but I find it rather strange.
A non-standard size does not make sense to me.

On one hand, if I am not mistaken, the pump is US made: I think could be well talking inches and not millimeters. On the other, we're not talking GM or Ford or Toyota.

ie: we're talking Procon and although they may manufacture thousands of first rate pumps of every kind, to have a non-standard bearing made for it means having to make hundreds of thousands of bearings a year.

And that means $$$.

My initial impression (and could be dead wrong here) is that it may not be off the supplier's shelf but not necessarily a non-standard bearing.

If you look closely, you'll find lettering with a number and maybe letters on the bearing's seal. I see one in the photo you posted but cannot make it out: XXXXRS. (could it be 1614RS?)

In any case, that number is what IDs the bearing in the particular manufacturer's catalogue (Peer?), a number that is usually a generalised industry bearing reference which can be crosslisted to other manufacturers making the same size bearing.

For example:

I you look up a 1614RS bearing you will find this, among others:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Bearing-1614 ... 0200630724

These are 10 (ten) 3/8"x1 1/8"x3/8" sealed ball bearings for sale on eBay for $24.95 + SH.

3/8" x 1 1/8" x 3/8" = 9.525 mm x 34.925 x 9.525 mm

Now, that's close ...
But they're not the numbers you posted (11mm x 30 mm).

Check out the numbering on the bearing and see what you find.

And thanks for taking the time to post your findings. =-)

Cheers,

CIV

Edit:
Check out these links to 10*30*9 mm sealed bearings.
The number is 6200z or 6200zz, depends on type of seals or something.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Z2 ... B002BBCKO0

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BB ... B002BBCKO0

http://www.amazon.com/Bearing-6200ZZ-10 ... B002BBCKO0

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045F ... B002BBCKO0

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erics
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#13: Post by erics »

The origins of the PROCON positive displacement, rotary vane pump trace back to 1948. PROCON pumps were manufactured beginning in 1950 and continue to the present day. PROCON Products has enjoyed considerable success over the years and is now the leading manufacturer in its markets throughout the world with manufacturing plants located in Mexico, Ireland, Australia and Japan. PROCON Products was acquired in 1966 by Standex International, a corporation publicly traded on the New York stock exchange (NYSE: SXI).
Yes, their headquarters is in Smyrna, Tennessee.

The Australian contact point is:

Melbourne, Australia

Roehlen Industries - Melbourne Division
46 Dehavilland Road
Mordialloc, Victoria 3195
Australia

phone: 011-61 (3) 9580-4155
fax: 011-61 (3) 9580-2954
shaw@roehlen.com.au

I would think a phonecall would settle that bearing issue pronto.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

gor (original poster)
Posts: 268
Joined: 12 years ago

#14: Post by gor (original poster) »

Hey CIV,

The blokes at the bearing place did an extensive search through all their catalogues, in the end doing both imperial and metric combinations to see if they could find the right size. The numbers stamped on the original procon bearing seal related to a different sized bearing, which they actually pulled out from their shelves and showed me. The China manufacturer used a seal from a different sized bearing! Maybe that's how they keep the costs low. It also explains why people aren't doing overhauls on these pumps, you just can't buy a bearing of the right size off any shelf. I must admit I have only been to one supplier and will try another tomorrow.



The above photos are of the bearing from the second one I pulled apart. It too has ID 11mm and OD 30mm.

I am not in anyway suggesting that procon uses crap bearings. All I am am looking to do is find a new (aftermarket) bearing that I can use in an attempt to rebuild this pump. A manufacturer such as Procon is large enough to be able to use custom bearings in their pumps. The only problem is that the average Joe is not able to get them aftermarket.

Anyway, my quest continues.

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civ
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#15: Post by civ »

Hello again:
gor wrote: I am not in anyway suggesting that procon uses crap bearings.
Nor am I.

Just that the volumes involved to get a manufacturer to make a special one are fabulous.
Why take that path when you can get them straight from the manufacturer's catalogue?
gor wrote: All I am looking to do is find a new (aftermarket) bearing that I can use ...
Have a look at the links I posted earlier.
These examples, available through a well known mail order company, are of different qualities and prices with the ID (10) and OD (30) you need - width is 9.0 mm - and hopefully what you are needing to use a replacement.

In any case, the 'magic' bearing catalogue number seems to be 6200ZZ.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Z2 ... B002BBCKO0

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BB ... B002BBCKO0

http://www.amazon.com/Bearing-6200ZZ-10 ... B002BBCKO0

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045F ... B002BBCKO0

Cheers,

CIV

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erics
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#16: Post by erics »

That bearing is, in fact, a non-standard bearing and thus not readily available. The Procon part number is 1046-2. As a BTW, Timken and SKF are not on the approved list of suppliers.

ID = 0.436" (sized by design in inches)
OD = 30.00 mm (sized by design in mm)
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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civ
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#17: Post by civ »

Hello:
erics wrote: ... is, in fact, a non-standard bearing and thus not readily available.
... Timken and SKF are not on the approved list of suppliers.
Interesting.
I take it this is Procon data.
Thanks for looking up the data and posting it. =-)

As to Timken and SKF not being approved (by Procon, I guess), I think that these two fellows are major players worldwide. If I need a 11.0 x 30.0 bearing and they have it, I'd scoop it up without a second thought.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW:
In my two earlier posts, I confused the bearing's ID (10.0 mm instead of 11.0 mm) and happily went looking for one with the 10.0 mm ID instead of the one with the 11.0 mm ID, which (of course!) I found in a minute.

Too early, too much in a hurry, too little coffee. 
My apologies to all involved.  =-|~
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it's of any consolation to the OP ...
Both my local sources for bearings and such confirm the non-standard status of a 11.0 x 30.0 mm bearing (because of the 11.0 mm ID) but also tell me that at some time in the not too distant past it could be sourced locally as the importer had stock.

This is so because it happens to be listed in some monster catalogue every one in the trade here has, but the importer does not have it any more. It is 11.0 x 30.0 x 9.0 mm but have not been able to get a number for it.
erics wrote: ID = 0.436" (sized by design in inches)
OD = 30.00 mm (sized by design in mm)
I see.
And 0.436" is 11.0744 mm., which should fit snugly.

I would not be too comfortable with 'touching' the axle on a lathe to accommodate a standard (10mm) ball bearing, more so if you take into account that there seem to be a number of other important hurdles to jump over. (seals, etc.)

So, unless this is the only important problem and the rest is just your everyday pump overhaul, I guess it's a matter of either getting a new 11 mm x 30 mm bearing and keep going or sending the pump to Procon for overhaul.

Cheers,

CIV

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erics
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#18: Post by erics »

I would, most definitely, interpret "not approved suppliers" to mean that Timken and SKF are/were unwilling to supply this non-standard bearing ($$$ ?). I, too, would not hesitate to buy their products.

But, with all due respect to Gor, this entire situation is going along the same lines as the Ulka pump parts availability/overhaul situation (zilch). As with others, I enjoy the fix vice replace modus operandi BUT considering what reputable pump overhaul facilities (like the one I linked to earlier) do to the pumps they receive, it is monies very well spent.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

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civ
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#19: Post by civ »

Hello:
erics wrote: ... interpret "not approved suppliers" to mean that Timken and SKF are/were unwilling to supply ...
I concurr.

More if you can (and I certainly can) evaluate the bearing's special ID (11.0 mm) in the light of an "I make it so only I can fix it" strategy on behalf of Procon. ie: My take is that a 10.0 mm shaft vs. a 11.0 mm shaft is negligible in terms of design and how the pump works.
It's most probably (could be dead wrong, again) technically unaccountable.
erics wrote: ... same lines as the Ulka pump parts availability/overhaul situation ...
Sure ...

But an Ulka is so much simpler to dismantle and clean up/repair.

If you 1) Don't lose any parts when you take it apart and 2) Can get your hands on another sample with a burnt out coil so as to be able to source whatever went south (basically the spring and maybe the plastic thinguies inside) then you're well on your way to being one happy camper.

But a Procon overhaul is a whole different matter.
erics wrote: ... considering what reputable pump overhaul facilities ...
And what seems to be a reasonable price in relation to what a new one costs.
I have to agree with you, it's money well spent.

But I also appreciate the effort and zest behind finding out what makes the damn thing tick.
I can very easily relate to Gor's quest and see it as a very valuable undertaking.
(wooden box mode 'on')
Knowledge and information is power, in any environment.
(wooden box mode 'off')
In my case, my Italian made Vibropompe, very similar if not identical to a Procon, is completely abandoned to it's luck as the company that manufactured it went south a couple of years ago and I have not heard of anyone who knows anything about them.

I am not using it at the moment but I'd hate to have to trash it, so taking it apart may well be the way to go if the need for a fix arises.

Cheers,

CIV

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erics
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#20: Post by erics »

You're forgetting :) about that mechanical seal assembly which is, more than likely, also an out-sourced part and MAY come in standard (to them) sizes which differ (obviously) from the more standard rolling element bearing sizes.
in the light of an "I make it so only I can fix it" strategy on behalf of Procon.
I don't agree but I'll call Fluid-O-Tech tomorrow and see how "standard" their bearing is.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com