I've been reading this forum for a few months and have just registered because I would appreciate your opinion.

For 5 years I have been using Rancilio Silvia + Rocky combo and was somewhat satisfied with the coffee until I've visited a friend who had prepared me a latte with his Rocket machine. So after doing a little (too little) research I decided to pull the trigger on what I thought was the cream de la creme - Rocket R58 (Double Boiler!) and Quamar M80E Grinder. Needless to say, both have been an amazing step up in both espresso preparation and the end results, it took a few days to get the hang of it but at some point I got pretty decent at it.

And then I've read, read and read more... La Marzocco GS/3 has stolen my heart, there's just something about the way the shots pour on it, the visual appeal of the shot and its viscosity that seems quite unique to it and I can't get anywhere close to that on my R58. Not sure if this is the grinder or the espresso machine, but I decided that what I really would want would be the GS3 and K30 Vario combo, seems to be one of the best combos out there that would give me an amazing setup at home.

I am familiar with the concept of diminishing returns - the difference between Silvia and R58 is huge and I probably won't get the same with the GS3 upgrade, but from your experience, what kind of difference shall I expect? Is it even worth the hassle? Should I just upgrade the grinder? Should I just upgrade the espresso machine? Much appreciated.

dtum wrote: I am familiar with the concept of diminishing returns - the difference between Silvia and R58 is huge and I probably won't get the same with the GS3 upgrade, but from your experience, what kind of difference shall I expect? Is it even worth the hassle? Should I just upgrade the grinder? Should I just upgrade the espresso machine? Much appreciated.

While the Quamar M80E is a certainly capable grinder, you will very likely find a more significant difference upgrading your grinder from a M80E -> K30 than you would upgrading the machine from the R58 -> GS3. Visual appeal of espresso is great, but can be very dependent on the grinder and coffee used.

While the GS3 is a great machine, the R58 is no slouch. I'd say if you're going to upgrade anything, upgrade the grinder and give yourself some time grow with the Rocket.

I believe Peppersass on the forum has or has played with most of your equipment asks and, luckily for you, he has put in the effort and tears to really make and evaluate a fully extracted shot. His feed would be invaluable on this question. Hopefully he will chime in. Olive branch.

My statements are only that the Coffee and Grinder is the more important piece in my opinion. I prefer big flats as an extraction junkie. I simply love the K30. It allows great espresso to be easier; and it just works without a fussy routine. You could also jump to the Peak or EK43, with positives and negatives. Someone else can chime on conicals as they are not my preference.

Why not find some great beans, explore your technique and pallet and just enjoy a bunch of great coffee in your current gear for a while before upgrading; enjoy your path of espresso instead of the destination. You already have all the gear needed to make fantastic espresso.

Or slow down by 50%; upgrade the bean and grinder and see what you can do with your very capable rocket machine. Choices are a beautiful thing; enjoy sir.

Thank you all for your feedback.

How big of a difference is there between Quamar M80E and the K30? How would one describe it?

My son has a m80e,It is one of the best bang for the buck grinders I have used ,Super jolly results. JK

If you were able to master the Silvia, you should not see a huge difference in the taste of the cup with the R58.

It's a sign you should continue to improve your skills before going to the upgradatis. The R58 can be forgiving on technique errors while the Silvia can be finky as hell, so you are stepping to the end of the world and this is probably why you can taste a huge difference. The R58 will give you more consistency/features/convenience and this is why tou should love this machine.

Grinder will be the biggest improve for your cup, always, but I think you should wait and continue your learning curve on the Rocket, maybe your results can be even more better.

But swapping grinders is something you just can't say no and you will never look back.

Another thought if you like to experiment might be to try the Orphan Espresso Pharos, large conical hand grinder. The cost of entry for the Pharos is pretty small considering what you can get out of it, and they show up used from time to time. The K30 would be really nice, no doubt, but the Pharos would give you the opportunity to try a large conical without breaking the bank. May even be worth hanging onto if you pick up the K30, would offer a different flavor profile.

Best of luck, you've got some nice equipment to build on.

6 months ago I would have said the number one biggest upgrade in equipment would be "grinder, grinde, grinder!"

But now I'd ague for "flow, flow, flow!"

Drop your pump pressure to 6 bars, measured during an actual extraction. AND make sure your water debit is on the low side. 200-250ml during 30 seconds.

Reduce tamp pressure to around 20 lbs. and grind finer.

Hopefully you've bought some VST baskets. Don't overdose. Use a dose that matches the basket i.e.; 18g in 18g basket. This will require a finer grind too.

That will give you the tools for thick, viscous, super tasty shots that are much easier to extract and with a minimal $ investment.

Once you get all that dialed in you might be totally happy.

If you're like most HBers and still looking for more or just have the urge to push the envelope, get the best grinder you can next.

And machine after that...

And don't forget to increase your shot duration to 40 seconds... or longer

I've found that the darker the roast the closer to the old optimum shot you will want to be.

With a light roast, a longer extraction time will be needed to balance the flavors. 40 seconds like you said works well.