First post on the forum, though I have been reading quite a few of the excellent contributions to this forum and other coffee fora

I'm in the market for my first home espresso set-up. Regarding our (my wife and I) drinking habits. As of now we've been on the Nespresso train for a few years. Great machines for easy no-fuss decent drinks at home. We almost exclusively drink lattes from the Nespresso gear, and brew coffee in a Bunn. We've got a junky burr grinder that excels at making fines. Main reason we don't drink straight espresso from the Nespresso machine is that it doesn't taste very good, and I'm hoping to change that. I drink enough beverages that a home espresso machine could conceivably make financial sense, but let's face it, this seems like a great hobby to get into.

My ideal set-up, based on what I've been reading and my aesthetic/use case, would probably be a La Marzocco Linea Mini and grinder in the $2k range that can single-dose for espresso, and ideally be used for drip or syphon as well. Wife approval is going to be tricky, so my budget won't get me there, but I'm sure that's a dilemma many are faced with. Let's say I have $3000 to work with now.

Based on the FAQ's, it seems that freshly roasted coffee and a high quality grinder should take precedence over the espresso machine. My thought was to go all out on the grinder, and I have an eye toward the KafaTek Monolith conical. Had a quick email exchange with Denis, and he said that a couple of his customers use it as an all-in-one grinding solution, pretty easy to switch from espresso grind to drip and back. I love the design, the workflow, precision crafting of the machine, and clean-up and maintenance look easy.

That leaves me up to $1000 for an espresso machine, which is not ideal, but such is life. It looks like I can be a pre-loved HX E61 machine in good condition with that budget. Specifically I've found a local ECM Giotto/Cellini that is a few or several years old, had an inspection and seals/gaskets replaced one year ago. There are several iterations of this machine, and I can't find any specific info yet. It has a semicircle pressure gauge near the on-off switch, and a drip tray cover with thin linear grating (not the circular holes on the Rocket models). From the provided photos, there is no PID display.

I'd appreciate any ideas or feedback, and in particular any commentary on the specific models I mentioned. Down the road, once my wife has tasted the goodness, I'm sure I could get some room to upgrade the espresso machine. I already have the kids trained to shout "La Morzocco!" on demand, so it's only a matter of time

For someone like you that has a coffee setup already and a limited budget in terms of high end equipment perhaps it's prudent to look at the Decent Espresso line and wait for the roll out. The Decent machine @ around 1K will allow you to purchase a nice grinder and be within budget.

I THINK that for 1000k with heavy milk drink usage many here would say a Breville DB (bed bath and beyond with 20% coupon) especially for a newer hobbiest. The learning curve may be longer on an HX because it requires a "flushing routine". You are going to be knee deep in controlling other variables as a new "home barista".

If you decide that it's not for you at least you can return it. OR, if you keep it, it offers a lot of value for the money.

+1 BDB a newbie friendly proven performer at a modest price.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I read about the Breville dual boiler machine. It looks to be quite capable and forgiving, and incorporates features not available on many more expensive machines, with all the preinfusion controls. I always keep an open mind, but it's hard for me to get past the build quality, and throwaway nature of it's design if there is a problem. I'll have to spend more time looking into the Decent machine, as it seems to be in development right now. I'm always a bit leery of first gen products, but you never know, maybe they will get everything right on the first go.

In the end a tasty beverage is one of the things I'm looking for, but not all. Part of what drew me to this is that it can be a rewarding hobby, there is a new skill set to learn, and I gain enjoyment from the process of my hobbies as well as the end results. I'll use photography as an analogy. A final edited photograph is like the freshly made cappuccino, something to be savored. But I thoroughly enjoy the whole process of scouting a scene, returning when the light is just right, setting up a tripod, choosing the right lens, manually focusing it and framing the shot, then heading home to edit the raw image until I get a photo with the look I want. I can tweak several parameters, but in the end the subject and the light have the greatest influence on the final photo. However, I do like a degree of automation by the camera. I let the camera take care of the metering, I get feedback in real time with a histogram, I use an electronic timer, I couldn't develop film well if I tried, etc.

It sounds to me that I need to increase my machine budget to get what I want, rather than settling. I tend to "buy once, buy right" and keep things for a long time. So i guess I'll reframe the question a bit, let's take budget out of the equation. Knowing what you know now, with the goal of avoiding upgraditis, what would you have purchased as your first machine as a freshly minted home barista if you planned to keep the machine for 5-10 years?

The Baratza Forte grinder might be perfect for your situation. Robust, small footprint, and capable of handling espresso to brew, as well as single dosing well if needed. And the grind quality of the Varios/Forte is excellent for the price. People forget that Mahlkonig/Ditting designed the burrs and grind mechanism for the Vario/Forte. And they know a thing or two about grinders and burrs.

A Forte would leave you substantial budget room for your machine. Unless you're increasing your budget.

There are so many ways you could go. And so many combinations of grinder and machine to get to great espresso. It really depends on your priorities, budget, ergonomic/aesthetic preferences, expected routine etc.

But the general advice around these parts is get the best set-up you can realistically afford to stave off the inevitable upgraditis! Because when that unshakeable disease takes hold, there's only one cure...more, more, more!

EDIT: I am in no way trying to dissuade you from the Kafatek. They look amazing. And I want one myself. But if budget is a concern, the Forte/Vario grinders are fantastic bang for the buck value. And you need to pay substantially more money to get into the next tier of grinders.

uscmatt99 wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone. I read about the Breville dual boiler machine. It looks to be quite capable and forgiving, and incorporates features not available on many more expensive machines, with all the preinfusion controls. I always keep an open mind, but it's hard for me to get past the build quality, and throwaway nature of it's design if there is a problem. I'll have to spend more time looking into the Decent machine, as it seems to be in development right now. I'm always a bit leery of first gen products, but you never know, maybe they will get everything right on the first go.
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It sounds to me that I need to increase my machine budget to get what I want, rather than settling. I tend to "buy once, buy right" and keep things for a long time. So i guess I'll reframe the question a bit, let's take budget out of the equation. Knowing what you know now, with the goal of avoiding upgraditis, what would you have purchased as your first machine as a freshly minted home barista if you planned to keep the machine for 5-10 years?

If you're looking for a budget Dual Boiler PID espresso machine, and are a little weary of the Breville DB's build quality, I would consider a Profitec Pro300. at $1550 its a few hundred dollars more, but with your $3k budget you could get the Pro300 and still have plenty left over for a capable grinder. We've only had ours for a month, but it does everything we could ask for in espresso machine and is very solidly built. I also like that it's designed to be user serviceable, which means in the years we plan to own it, we will be able to do maintenance ourselves. Something to consider if you're looking for a machine to own >5 years.

Thanks for the additional comments!

Regarding the grinder, I naively jumped to the idea of spending a bunch and going for an all-in-one forever solution. It may be there with the Monolith, but I could probably get away with a Baratza Virtuoso for drip, syphon, and press, opening up more possibilities for an espresso dedicated grinder. Color me intrigued by the HG-1. I have a Skerton that I've used several times, but frankly, it takes awhile to grind enough for my syphon and I'm not convinced it's that superior to what I can get out of my cheap electric burr grinder. However is sounds like espresso is much more sensitive to very fine grind adjustments and uniformity, and that the HG-1 is best in class for a manual grinder. Looks nice too

There are a couple used HG-1's on the forum for $750-800. This would leave me with around $2200 for an espresso machine, which puts me into a way bigger playing field regarding double boiler E61 machines. The one that seems the best for my needs is a Quickmill Vetrano V2. More forgiving for a beginner, plenty of steam power, and user serviceable.

I figure that if I absolutely hate using a manual grinder, it would be pretty easy to sell for very little loss, but that I could use it until I have enough in the espresso budget to go for a Monolith or something else along those lines.

So here are my three options. In the collective wisdom, what do you think?

1: Breville DB machine and Baratza Vario/Sette
2: Used HX E61 and Monolith
3: New DB E61 and HG-1

with this kind of budget, go for a e61 single boiler, and a very good grinder.