Compak E10 grinder + which espresso machine? - Page 2

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
TheCastanza
Posts: 50
Joined: 8 years ago

#11: Post by TheCastanza »

I say get the Lucca. Nice Double boiler that you can plumb in later if you want. Looks really sharp in my opinion with the chrome and the joystick steam controls. Shot timer is something I really appreciate on my vetrano. Im thinking the BDB is just going to be a waste of money for you because you are going to be wondering what these "better" machines do. With the Lucca, you get an e61 that is a very nice machine and you can master the basics (grind, dose, distrib etc) and get stellar with them and save the slayer/vesuvius upgrade for a couple years down the road when you'll really be able to take advantage of the more advanced features. Linea Mini is also super nice looking but I feel the same way about price.

also congrats on the E10!

SAB
Posts: 364
Joined: 10 years ago

#12: Post by SAB »

russel wrote:
I also think that every dedicated home barista should spend at least a year using a direct lever machine...
I'm very interested in this comment. Would you mind clarifying/expounding on your thoughts on this?

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russel
Posts: 778
Joined: 13 years ago

#13: Post by russel replying to SAB »

I'm trying to be brief becuase this is off topic...

Mastering espresso is really hard. It takes a lot experience to connect your palate to your understanding of the process to your hands as they prep the dose. I think the best way to build this experience it to challenge yourself. I think that direct levers represent very instructive challenges. As a bonus, they provide more feedback and a bunch of added flexibility that pump machines don't typically offer. A group thermometer is a must, but once added an LP or a Cremina provides solid intra-shot tempratures with trivially controlled inter-shot tempratures. In this way they're temp stable and easily temp adjustable. They demand that you deal with shot temp as a variable while letting you do so with relative ease. Their sensitivity to head space demands careful packing. You have no choice but to deal with pressure profiling to some degree, but they let you do so in a really natural way. The fixed maximum water volume provide boundaries that you are forced to work with, something that might seem limiting but actually forces you to figure out how preinfusion works.

Personally, I don't like the steam heated group LPs. Gravity fed manuals like the Caravel present a different but equally valuable challenge than pressurized boiler manuals.
russel at anacidicandbitterbeverage dot com

SAB
Posts: 364
Joined: 10 years ago

#14: Post by SAB replying to russel »


Thanks for your clarification. Yes it is off topic a bit, but I think a valuable addition to the "what machine should I buy in this instance...?" question that was asked here and often elsewhere.

And one of the pertinent features as it relates to the OP's query, is that lever machines were really the first pressure profiling machines. Though I don't yet own one, a direct lever seems to be a good learning precursor for a Slayer or any pressure profiling machine.

The OP asked a multiple choice question, essentially. Which option should I choose? Part of the value of the discussions here is the posing of the "did you think about this additional choice that might also work..." Your mentioning the DE1 serves as a good example. And that discussion expands the question from a personal "what should I do?" question to a broader one of "what sorts of things should I consider when buying a machine to match a high-end grinder with varying levels of experience?"

I'm loving the look of the streitman ct-1, btw, and that's what prompted my exploration of your comment. I found your comments instructive, and expect others will, too.

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galumay
Posts: 341
Joined: 15 years ago

#15: Post by galumay »

I dont get the obsession with machines that seek to imitate the output of lever machines -when they end up costing a lot more than what they seek to imitate! Just get a commercial spring lever and you will never look back! You will also learn more about the dark art of making coffee than you will on electric pump machines.
LMWDP #322 i started with nothing.........i still have most of it.

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russel
Posts: 778
Joined: 13 years ago

#16: Post by russel »

I think the most important lesson that mastering levers teaches is that the barista makes the coffee, not the machine, and that there's not one best machine.
russel at anacidicandbitterbeverage dot com

HighlyCaffienated (original poster)
Posts: 19
Joined: 8 years ago

#17: Post by HighlyCaffienated (original poster) »

Thanks everyone for the great responses. I think there are two important points I missed in my first post.

First, I am a person to likes to "tinker" and adjust/tweak/etc in everything I do (guessing most on this forum are the same...). So, when looking at my vast choices for espresso machines, I am immediately drawn to the ones with a feature set that will allow this. Currently, most of these features are reserved for the most expensive offerings. I've got my eye on the DE1 and their products for sure, but now that I have a grinder on the way, I am hoping to make my first espresso machine purchase this week.

Second, I haven't even touched on the human-controlled aspect to all of this process. I am vaguely-aware of the various methods out there, where different processes can produce a vastly different serving of espresso on the same gear. Everything from your grind purging habits, tamping style, weight, timing, water, etc, but have yet to put them into action for myself. I fully acknowledge that one can purchase a very expensive setup and completely fail at making drinkable shots. I am excited to learn, and am hoping to set myself up with gear that I know I will be able to enjoy throughout the process.

All that said, I know I have a ton more research to do in this category. Lever machines do appeal to me for all of the reasons mentioned above; but I have not even began to scratch the surface there. Same goes with the Slayer, modded GS3, Speedster, etc. Given the time it's taken me to look into just the "starter" > HX > DB machines out there, I think I may opt for the BDB now, so my E10 doesn't get lonely. It's got enough of the features that I can learn and tinker with, while researching which direction I may want to go for my second machine.

...I think I just admitted that it's inevitable that I'll have a second espresso machine somewhere down the line. This was not my thought or intention when I started down this rabbit hole a few months ago!

SAB
Posts: 364
Joined: 10 years ago

#18: Post by SAB »

I think you've got a great game plan going forward. The BDB will give you plenty to explore for quite some time.

And don't limit yourself to just ONE more machine... :D Who KNOWS what kind of fun is on the horizon?!? :shock: :lol:

HighlyCaffienated (original poster)
Posts: 19
Joined: 8 years ago

#19: Post by HighlyCaffienated (original poster) »

I was not aware of the commitment I was signing up for when I registered an account here! Looking forward to it though :mrgreen:.

I went ahead and ordered the BDB this weekend. It comes with a bottomless portafilter, and I guess the baskets that come with it are pretty decent. Also picked up a used Pullman convex tamper to learn on. Can't wait for everything to arrive this week and get to work!

Thanks again to everyone that offered advice and thoughts - it was all very helpful.

HighlyCaffienated (original poster)
Posts: 19
Joined: 8 years ago

#20: Post by HighlyCaffienated (original poster) »

Duplicate post, whoops.