zapa wrote:There is a reason why it is used in the world barista competitions.

Great grinder, but there's plenty of great grinders out there.

The reason it is used at WBC is sponsorship.

I just bought a Pro 300 (owned for 2 weeks) after a moving mishap ended a 10-year long relationship with my Rancilio Silvia.

I do find that the ability to pull reliably good shots vs my PID'd Silvia has improved somewhat, but it's not night and day as I was getting pretty familiar with the Silvia. The Pro 300 does heat up faster than many larger machines. But while usable in under 10 min with a nicely heated brew group and portafilter by that point, you really want to let it heat up for closer to 20 min for best results in my experience.

My Pro 300 is the 1800W-rated version which means the heating elements are purportedly 800W instead of 1200W in the original design. Given the small brew boiler with PID and quick recovery times I've been observing, I don't think this difference is much of an issue for the brew boiler. For the steam boiler, I have some doubts as I've been finding that I have barely enough steam for a fairly full 20 oz pitcher (so about 10-12 oz of milk?). And this is after adjusting the pressurestat so that it now shuts off the heater at 1.3-1.4 bar instead of the ~1.1 bar as it arrived. To be honest, I was a bit surprised to find that the Pro 300 doesn't seem to provide much more steam output than my PID'd Silvia (that had a boiler about 1/2 the size). Not a deal breaker, as I would almost never need to make milk for more than 2 drinks at a time and the steam recovery time, even with 800W heater, is pretty quick. In a thoroughly warmed machine, even after the steam boiler refills, it seems to be back to temperature in a minute or so.

All in all, I'm quite happy with the Pro 300. Fit an finish is solid - though here you're not getting quite the attention to detail as with the Pro 700. You are also giving up sprung steam and hot water valves that may be an issue for durability down the line, particularly if you are rough on the valves. That said, the knobs on the Pro 300 work very well. You can be very gentle with them with no leaks and they operate smoothly. Temperature at the group seems very reliable (though I have not tested myself for accuracy against what the display on the PID reads). It is relatively compact and gives true dual boiler functionality. The only niggle being that I was kind of expecting a little more in the way of steam... But considering how much more the Pro 700 would have cost, I doubt that I would have chose it over the Pro 300 given my needs if I were to do it again.

I also recently purchased a Fiorenzato F4E and am very happy with this grinder. Some shy away as its flat burrs are only 58mm. However, it grinds just about as well as any 64mm I've tried, including Super Jolly's, though it may take a couple of seconds longer for the same dose (I've found grind speed to be just a hair quicker than a gram/second - IE, an 18g dose takes about 15 seconds). The electronic control system on the F4E is probably the best in class. The chute is so simple and seems to work better than most of those cumbersome-looking static reducing "bowl dispensers" I've seen (ie, like on the T64 or M80E). Very little grind retention too. If you need to get your dose out in 5 seconds or less, look elsewhere for a grinder with a larger/more aggressive burr set. Otherwise, the F4E is tough to beat.

coffeinator wrote:I just bought a Pro 300 (owned for 2 weeks) after a moving mishap ended a 10-year long relationship with my Rancilio Silvia.

I do find that the ability to pull reliably good shots vs my PID'd Silvia has improved somewhat, but it's not night and day as I was getting pretty familiar with the Silvia. The Pro 300 does heat up faster than many larger machines. But while usable in under 10 min with a nicely heated brew group and portafilter by that point, you really want to let it heat up for closer to 20 min for best results in my experience.

I wonder if this is power related. I see very little difference between waiting 10 mins and waiting any more on my 20A 2400W machine. I imagine I get up to temp slightly faster, but after that it should be the same.

coffeinator wrote: My Pro 300 is the 1800W-rated version which means the heating elements are purportedly 800W instead of 1200W in the original design. Given the small brew boiler with PID and quick recovery times I've been observing, I don't think this difference is much of an issue for the brew boiler. For the steam boiler, I have some doubts as I've been finding that I have barely enough steam for a fairly full 20 oz pitcher (so about 10-12 oz of milk?). And this is after adjusting the pressurestat so that it now shuts off the heater at 1.3-1.4 bar instead of the ~1.1 bar as it arrived. To be honest, I was a bit surprised to find that the Pro 300 doesn't seem to provide much more steam output than my PID'd Silvia (that had a boiler about 1/2 the size). Not a deal breaker, as I would almost never need to make milk for more than 2 drinks at a time and the steam recovery time, even with 800W heater, is pretty quick. In a thoroughly warmed machine, even after the steam boiler refills, it seems to be back to temperature in a minute or so.

I'm sorry to hear that it's not quite as powerful as you were hoping. 10-12oz is a lot of milk! I usually am steaming maybe 3-6oz at a time for my wife's capps - maybe 7-8oz for a London Fog, never had a problem. Again, may be the power rating.

I encourage you to post you're continued thoughts on the Pro 300 user experience thread

Fausto wrote:I wonder if this is power related. I see very little difference between waiting 10 mins and waiting any more on my 20A 2400W machine. I imagine I get up to temp slightly faster, but after that it should be the same.

I'm mostly referring to the recovery time after pulling a shot. When my pro 300 has been on for about 10 min, I notice myself waiting an extra minute or two for the PID to creep up to those last couple of degrees. After the machine has been on for about twice that long, I hardly notice this at all. If you want to bang out multiple shots, letting it heat up a few more minutes from cold start seems to be beneficial.

Fausto wrote: I'm sorry to hear that it's not quite as powerful as you were hoping. 10-12oz is a lot of milk! I usually am steaming maybe 3-6oz at a time for my wife's capps - maybe 7-8oz for a London Fog, never had a problem.

Yeah. 10+ oz is a lot of milk - more than I would ever need for 1 drink and more than I would ever need for 2 drinks 99% of the time (6-8 oz is about what I normally use on 2 drinks for something in the flat white/cappuccino range). For single drinks and short pairs, the Pro 300 makes quick enough work of up to 6-7 oz in a 12 oz pitcher. I'll probably pick up a 16 oz pitcher if I can find one for those times when I need a bit more.

There is no reason to get a 300 over a 700 other than cost or space constraints.

Heat up time, weight (different from space), don't like spring valves....hmmmm, that's all I got.

Heat up time is easily solved with a timer or Wemo switch. Shouldn't be a deciding factor IMO.

Actually I do think it can be a factor - it was for me. Having a machine that heats up in 10 min rather than 30-45 min matters when you have guests over and want to make a quick coffee, for example.

But really, the best test would be to pull shots on a Pro300 and Pro700 side-by-side - I have an (informed) suspicion that they might not be all that different.

Anyone can provide comments on the Pro 500, aside of being a HX machine looks very similar in quality to the Pro 700. I understand that cooling flushes are required before every shot. Question is if it is worth to pay $1000 for the DB version.
Thank you

Without going into details about HX vs DB, the Pro500 is actually very different from the Pro700 - the latter is a more upscale machine. That extra $1000 for the Pro700 not only includes the dual boiler setup, but PID temperature control on both boilers (Pro500 has none), a rotary pump (vs the vibe pump in the Pro500), and the ability to either plumb-in or reservoir for water inlet (the Pro500 lacks a plumb-in option). The Pro500 looks like a great machine and certainly a good value, but the two are very different.