Hi all,

I've been keen on performing the gigleur modification on my Appia II Compact, which is an HX machine. I wonder if anyone knows of detailed instructions on carrying this out? Local tech guys don't do it.

I believe it will slow the ramp of pressure in the group head, just as in KVDW machines, and I guess also approximates Slayer or Synesso technology. It will also allow finer grinding and a larger extraction range!

I believe Slayer uses a needle valve, and starts with very low flow to saturate the puck and them allows you to ramp up to a normal flow.

Is that what you want to do? Or do you want to decrease the diameter of your gigleur to lower your flow? The latter seems much easier.

I've read that "optimal" water debit for an espresso machine is around 90ml/10 sec, however I've always wondered if something closer to 40-60ml would be better since it would offer a slower , more gentle ramp up. Unless you plan to pull A very very long espresso, this flow is more than sufficient.

I'm not familiar with the water debit concept...

But yes, I do want to slow the flow. Nuova Simonelli already comes with SIS (Soft Infusion System) technology. In my system, I read 8 bars for 1.5 secs before it pushes to 9 bar, for a single group dose. If I actuate both groups with coffee inside, I would read 6 bars for 1.5-2 secs before it pushes to 9 bars. I wonder what this says about the hydraulics of the system?

I would love to get 6 bars SIS/preinfusion for single group dosing.

So again, I wonder if anyone knows of instructional resources on going about this. I would just get the technician to help me out ex-services.

Pressure and water flow/debit are different things. Think of a fire hose vs a garden hose. Both could deliver water at say 2 bar pressure, but the fire hose would have a much higher flow and fill up a bucket much faster.

The actual pressure in the group head raises at a slower rate than the gauge connected directly after the pump. So, you can't tell what the actual pressure at the puck is without a special device.

If you want a slower pressure increase you have to change the gicleur directly after the flow meter. Standard for Appia is 0.8mm but 0.5mm was an option. For the Aurelia, 0.5 is standard.

I swapped put the 0.8 for the 0.5 and saw my water debit go down to 107g of water from the group head in 15 seconds. And also a slow ramp up in pressure which clearly gave me more even extractions with a naked pf.

Mesure how much water you get in 15 seconds. If you have over 200g in 15s, you have the 0.8mm gicleur.

0.5mm gicleur is part number 07300229 and can be ordered from elektros.it. Only have to remove the drip tray and the cover underneath it. Easy job. The gicleur is taken out with an allen key... i forget the size.

trumz wrote:
If you want a slower pressure increase you have to change the gicleur directly after the flow meter. Standard for Appia is 0.8mm but 0.5mm was an option. For the Aurelia, 0.5 is standard.

It's interesting you mention this because there's a video showing a lower preinfusion for Aurelia. This explains it. I'll measure the water debit of my machine. Thanks kyle!

trumz wrote: I swapped put the 0.8 for the 0.5 and saw my water debit go down to 107g of water from the group head in 15 seconds. And also a slow ramp up in pressure which clearly gave me more even extractions with a naked pf.

Kyle, I wonder if you took photos when you performed this mod? I'd love to see them. I'm building my cart from Elektros.

Hey,
Sorry I didn't take pics, but trust me, you don't need them. The gicleur is just after the exit of the flow meter. Take a look the the Appia II diagram.

Also, Refer to post #34 here Matt Perger on Water Debit / Flow Rate

trumz wrote: I swapped put the 0.8 for the 0.5 and saw my water debit go down to 107g of water from the group head in 15 seconds. And also a slow ramp up in pressure which clearly gave me more even extractions with a naked pf.

Hi Kyle! I tried taking a wrench to the nut around the out-going gigler, but it won't budge and for a while I thought I bent something.... Am I doing something wrong?

Does the nut rotate counterclockwise away from the "dosatore volumetrico"?

Talking to you here so this specific topic is finally discussed online.

Short article about water debt and E61 modification: http://grindscience.com/2014/03/quick-m ... fications/