Hello,

I've been trying to read up as much as possible on the right choice for my first espresso machine and the barrage of information has been slightly overwhelming but educational nonetheless. I was looking for some advice on my first machine. I will be making milk/soy based drinks almost exclusively and don't really plan drink straight shots. With that being said, does the fact that all of my drinks will be diluted by flavorings and milk give me a bit of a fudge factor when it comes to the in the cup quality of the espresso and specifically the machine?

I have looked a lot at the Breville Barista Express and feel it may be all I need to make good drinks. However, I can also get a Gaggia classic/rocky doserless bundle for slightly more than the Barista Express (599 vs 525 for express). I like the idea of the all in one and it seems at least to me that the foaming on the express may be better than the Gaggia without any sort of mod. Is there a better or cheaper setup that will fit my needs? Not looking to spend more than 600 but would go over slightly if needed (also not super interested in the used equipment route either).

First post but this is a important one to get me into the world of espresso. Thanks!

I've made tons of milk-based drinks with Breville Barista Express machines, of which I've had three (and lots of other Breville machines). That said, I don't recommend the Barista. The weak link is the grinder...had nothing but trouble with them. If you like that machine, consider getting the version that has no grinder in it (Infuser, I think it's called) and buy a separate grinder that is rated for espresso. BTW, I suspect that most of us on these pages no longer consider the Rocky to be a good espresso grinder, where once it was nearly standard. You should buy something more modern IMHO. Baratza has a well-respected bunch of them at good prices and with good support. I like the Preciso for espresso as it has the fine-tuning dial (~$300), but you could get away with the Virtuoso (~$230), which I think is the same machine with no fine-tuning dial. Buy the best grinder you can afford.

$600 is a really low budget and you'll be challenged to find something new that most of us would consider to be 'good'. I like the Gaggia Classic as a first machine; but, new, they're usually over $350 on sale. I'll probably be pilloried here for suggesting it, but if after you've bought a decent grinder you find you don't have much left in the budget, consider the Breville Cafe Roma (~$165). I've also had several of them and they work well for milk-drinks (don't use the foam enhancer...get used to doing it with the bare wand). They are a thermoblock machine, not a boiler; so the steam pressure is a bit slow. I don't have experience with the Delonghi 3630 (~$180), but I think it's actually a boiler machine; maybe someone can jump in here.

As for taste, it's all in the mouth . Seriously, while it is true that you might get away with using some marginal shots to make drinks, bad espresso is bad espresso. If you pull a sink shot, adding milk won't help much. Another aspect is you should try a number of different SO and blends, even those not necessarily recommended for espresso. In my opinion, some coffee tends to lend itself to milk drinks, and a few really nice espresso coffees are not as good in milk.

Good info I appreciate it. Couple of follow up questions.

Would a 3 year product replacement plan or purchasing from a store with a great return policy (no expiration on return) change your thinking on the Breville in regards to the grinder? Or is the problem general performance not necessarily it breaking?

I read very good things about the Preciso's performance but equally bad things about its durability. Is this something I should be concerned about or is misuse of the grinder a more likely reason many have had issues?

I have 870 and gaggia machine (albeit one with stainless boiler, not aluminum) and at this point I think I would go for the Infuser and a separate grinder over 870 or classic and grinder, because the steaming on brevilles is vastly superior to gaggias. Can get Infuser for $400 with coupon here https://app.bedbathandbeyond.com/prefs/pref.cfm. The 870 is great if you need compact setup, but I concur that the grinder is definitely weak point of this machine, although for me just because of the large steps of the adjustment and poor adjustment on the grinder dosing. If the grinder controls were comparable to their standalone grinders, I think it would be a home run for most people in this price range. Overall I am happy with the machine for how I use it though.

So uh... kinda went over budget. Nuova Simonelli Oscar (new/open box SCG) with new OE Pharos = $1200. At least I know any shortcomings will be from the user side. Hope I did right.

Oscar is good, I cranked the pstat up on mine and added a Linea steam tip, it steamed milk in 10 seconds... if it was more forgiving I would buy another one in a heartbeat, but my BDB is just great at pulling shots, it's extremely consistent and predictable... the Oscar can be consistent.. and predictable too, once you get the cooling flush going, I've thought many a time of selling the BDB and going back to an Oscar that's how much I loved mine (Thought it was old, and I think it had a few issue)

Thanks all. As I attempt to hone my skils I will continue to come back to these forums to learn more. Look forward to being a part of the community. Lots of great info here.

you made an extremely wise decision. Good espresso is expensive to produce