Newbie question: How much crema and how long should it last?
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- Posts: 14
- Joined: 8 years ago
How much crema should my espresso have and how long should it remain atop my extraction?
I am using a refurbished Bezzera BZ-10 (WLL) and a Gaggia MDF (eBay).
Thanks,
Richard
I am using a refurbished Bezzera BZ-10 (WLL) and a Gaggia MDF (eBay).
Thanks,
Richard
- aecletec
- Posts: 1997
- Joined: 13 years ago
I don't think there's a "should" unless you're competing.
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- Posts: 42
- Joined: 9 years ago
I think, the crema is not the question.
If the espresso taste good, everything ist allright.
If the espresso taste good, everything ist allright.
LMWDP #538
- weebit_nutty
- Posts: 1495
- Joined: 11 years ago
There's no right answer to this because it's entirely dependent on the bean variety and qualities in the roast, one of them being how long the roast was rested. But generally speaking, fresher roasts produce more crema, although not necessarily for the better.RichardWalter wrote:How much crema should my espresso have and how long should it remain atop my extraction?
I am using a refurbished Bezzera BZ-10 (WLL) and a Gaggia MDF (eBay).
Thanks,
Richard
But as the above poster eluded to, what matters is whether or not it is to your satisfaction. But you like more crema, the question to ask is "What roasts produce more crema and still taste good?"
I read roast blends containing Robusta produce the most crema but have actually no experience with them.
You're not always right, but when you're right, you're right, right?
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- Posts: 14
- Joined: 8 years ago
Points taken, thank you.
My last machine, a Saeco Espresso Classico produced a rich, thick crema using store-bought pre-ground beans. Granted, the Bezzera (BZ-10) is new to me, and from what I read I have to fiddle with the grind, tamp pressure, etc, but do I understand that the roast will also factor into the crema production?
I have been grinding Dave's Coffee (local!) Papua New Guinea medium roast at a 3, 2, and 1 in the Gaggia MDF. The espresso has been a little bitter and seems better now that I am at a 4. The flow looks good but the crema is thin (1/8-inch) and dissipates within two minutes.
I am at the beginning of my journey and welcome advice.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Richard
My last machine, a Saeco Espresso Classico produced a rich, thick crema using store-bought pre-ground beans. Granted, the Bezzera (BZ-10) is new to me, and from what I read I have to fiddle with the grind, tamp pressure, etc, but do I understand that the roast will also factor into the crema production?
I have been grinding Dave's Coffee (local!) Papua New Guinea medium roast at a 3, 2, and 1 in the Gaggia MDF. The espresso has been a little bitter and seems better now that I am at a 4. The flow looks good but the crema is thin (1/8-inch) and dissipates within two minutes.
I am at the beginning of my journey and welcome advice.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Richard
- RapidCoffee
- Team HB
- Posts: 4995
- Joined: 18 years ago
Espresso should pour as virtually 100% crema, at least on pump machines*. The crema gradually dissipates into liquid, but my shots are mostly crema at the end of the extraction. This is consistent across every roast I've ever tried, different grinders, and different machines.RichardWalter wrote:How much crema should my espresso have and how long should it remain atop my extraction?
* Low brew pressure on home levers can lead to reduced crema production.
John
- aecletec
- Posts: 1997
- Joined: 13 years ago
That Saeco machine has a pressurised portafilter design such that it restricts flow and foams the coffee and is not actual espresso or crema as we refer to it.
Nailing the right grind and dose is a critical aspect of espresso preparation and it isn't easy! Such is the skill of the barista.
It goes against the ethos of this community (exceptional espresso) but if you want an easier option then there'll probably be pressurised baskets that'll fit your portafilter (I'm thinking of perhaps spare 58mm Sunbeam or Breville baskets readily available on ebay et al).
Nailing the right grind and dose is a critical aspect of espresso preparation and it isn't easy! Such is the skill of the barista.
It goes against the ethos of this community (exceptional espresso) but if you want an easier option then there'll probably be pressurised baskets that'll fit your portafilter (I'm thinking of perhaps spare 58mm Sunbeam or Breville baskets readily available on ebay et al).
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- Posts: 14
- Joined: 8 years ago
I'm probably falling into the "I have a good(?) machine and decent(?) grinder, and fresh beans; why can't I make good espresso?" camp.
Currently my shots are starting in under three seconds coming out in under 20 seconds. It was Dave's Papua New Guinea at a 5 grind setting. Probably too coarse. One was kinda sour(?). The better shot was tamped harder. Still needs work. I am also using a less-than-58mm tamper.
How long can I leave fresh beans in the grinder hopper before they are affected by being outside? Where should I store beans once the bag is open? Fridge? Freezer? Vacuum can? Right now I store the three-days-open bag closed and in a ziplock bag.
Oh, and what's up with a bottomless portafilter (besides the pretty pictures)?
Thanks,
Richard
Currently my shots are starting in under three seconds coming out in under 20 seconds. It was Dave's Papua New Guinea at a 5 grind setting. Probably too coarse. One was kinda sour(?). The better shot was tamped harder. Still needs work. I am also using a less-than-58mm tamper.
How long can I leave fresh beans in the grinder hopper before they are affected by being outside? Where should I store beans once the bag is open? Fridge? Freezer? Vacuum can? Right now I store the three-days-open bag closed and in a ziplock bag.
Oh, and what's up with a bottomless portafilter (besides the pretty pictures)?
Thanks,
Richard
- HB
- Admin
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As a self-professed newbie, you should peruse the Recommended Reading section of the site's FAQs and Favorites Digest, excerpted below:
Try out the Forum search tips and post if you find a question is not already answered or the answer is unclear. Thanks!HB wrote:The site's must-read articles document the basic barista knowledge and techniques that apply to all espresso machines. Whether you are new or experienced to making espresso at home, reading The Home Barista's Guide to Espresso is time well spent. It covers a lot of ground and demystifies the key elements of espresso preparation. The guide is not just about techniques and equipment, but also about the reasons behind them.
If you prefer video instruction, check out the Newbies Guide to Espresso series. Even though the serie's main audience are those new to making espresso at home, it contains insights that more seasoned baristas may appreciate. If you only need a quick overview of espresso machine types, read Espresso Machines 101. These articles offer more diagnostic advice:
For HX espresso machine owners, add How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love HXs to the list of recommended reading. These how-tos aren't specifically addressing the usage of a particular machine, but they build the foundation of knowledge that will carry a home barista well beyond the early learning stage. These and other noteworthy articles on the web are listed in this article and on the site's Resources page.
- Perfecting the Naked Extraction (bottomless portafilters)
- Banish Uneven Extractions with the WDT
Dan Kehn
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- Posts: 14
- Joined: 8 years ago
Thank you for the advice; I read the suggested links.
I still have two unanswered questions however:
How long can I leave fresh beans in the grinder hopper before they are affected by being outside?
Where should I store beans once the bag is open? Fridge? Freezer? Vacuum can? Right now I store the three-days-open bag closed and in a ziplock bag.
Thank you,
Richard
I still have two unanswered questions however:
How long can I leave fresh beans in the grinder hopper before they are affected by being outside?
Where should I store beans once the bag is open? Fridge? Freezer? Vacuum can? Right now I store the three-days-open bag closed and in a ziplock bag.
Thank you,
Richard