Alan Frew wrote:I think it's a great idea, about 10 years too late. It provides grind and portion control of the coffee component of espresso, but the shot volume control is still apparently timer or flowmeter based. Capsule systems already do that, at a lower cost.

The ideal superauto needs a feedback loop that adjusts the grind and dose to accomplish the desired shot time and volume. The technology to do it already exists but no-one has put it together in a single machine ... yet.

Alan

In addition to a feedback loop, super automatics would take a big leap if programmers developed a barista algorithm. The programming would use AI to learn more and more over time, store information about each coffee pulled, each bean used, ambient conditions like humidity etc. Basically everything a real barista needs to account for when dialing in each day(or multiple times per day).

The one hurdle would be tasting the shots to adjust parameters... Again like a real barista. But people operating the machine could taste a few shots and provide feedback to the machine. This human input, combined with the learning algorithm, could improve super automatic results. Add crowd sourced data from similar machines around the world and you have more information to complete the picture.

Maybe a pipe dream? But Google, Apple, Facebook etc. do this kind of thing all day long in other domains.

The system has great potential, but I see it excelling more in a European cafe that moves alot of espresso. Stab the PF in the machine and pull a shot, dump, clean, next... A cafe that cares may manually steam the milk, or have the machine do it if they just want to move the line. Dial it in once or twice a day and then line them up. (Think of it as a machine for a Starbucks-like cafe that 'cares' to serve a consumable espresso.)

I think whether the machine will be a real great seller or not comes down to the beans and grinder control. Of course they can build a group, new locking system, metered dosage, etc. The question is what is their grinder control and bean storage like? Provided the beans don't cook or humidify in the machine; if they can fine tune the grind to the liking of a skilled barista then the machine has real potential.

In the future computerized tasting machines will become a reality, and the espresso machines may gain the ability to adjust on their own. Recent improvements in computer tasting sensors are likely to pave the way for that change in the future. The ability to "taste" something with a computer might give numbers and profiles to things we sense in our mouths. If that can be translated to a program that understands how to adjust coffee for a particular profile we'll be in a new world for espresso.

Imagine a world where the next generation "La Pavoni" project machine is a SuperAuto with some kind of computer tasting profiler attached via tablet and changing parameters on the pull based on sensors and barista input. You want a little more tartness on that shot? Dial in the temp, pressure, flavor, texture, or whatever based on a sensor array and your palate. Change the beans and then load in a profile for them and off you go.

Bluecold wrote:While we're being honest, a lot of high-end machines fed the most exquisite beans are producing subpar shots as well. When I set foot in a new-for-me coffee bar I usually order a pourover. If they wow me with pourover then I'll try their espresso. I suspect this trepidation to try espresso at a new place is prevalent amongst the H-B crowd. Shops either want to be the ones pushing at the boundaries of coffee state-of-the-art, or they are content to serve dreck.

To me, the promise of this hybrid machine seems to be being in the middle road. Shops not content to serve dreck, but also not wanting to be at the edge. The only current offering in this space of the market are the traditional coffee and machine vendors that leave the shops with a machine they don't know how to use, and nespresso, leaving them with high coffee costs and without any way to differentiate themselves since nespresso isn't new or unique.
This machine is something new. To me, it seems they try to straddle the line between the extremes by offering enough operator feedback to be engaging, but not so much that the operator is overwhelmed and stops caring. Exemplary of this line-straddling are the (real) steam wands in conjunction with the auto-steamer. If an operator wants to step up his game and try his hand at manual foaming and latte-art, the option is there. Just watch a few Dan Kehn newbie introduction videos and you can be good to go.

Your'e right. I've made the mistake of trying a shops espresso first, and it's completely ruined my perception of the quality of ANY of their coffee.

My Super Auto Saeco is my wife's favorite, as she cant pull shots on my Salvatore. It is 11 years old and has 24,000 cycles on it.