I was going to PM the OP, but figured I could expand and others might like to hear some of these thoughts too.

I'm only a year or so into specialty coffee at home, but tend to dive in whole hog when it happens. I started with pour over, and needed a grinder. Thought, "maybe I'd like to graduate to espresso some day." So looking at grinders, it became apparent that not many grinders do both espresso and pour over very nicely. They can be made to do it, but not easily in most cases.

Now the Vario and the Forte can switch between modes, and have settings that can be used to come back to the prior grind. It CAN do both, and particularly with both ceramic and steel burr sets, you can do both VERY well, and VERY conveniently.

So I went with the Forte, which allowed an awesome pour over grinder with the option to add espresso capability at the Super Jolly level tier for me in the future.

I don't have experience with the Vario, but really love what the Forte can do and admire it's range and friendliness but I also accept its limitations. (I do think there is a quality difference from the metal burr carrier and the better motor in the Forte leading to better alignment of the burrs.) It is a good jack of all trades grinder that is very friendly to use. Moving up from the Forte and wanting a Jack of all trades grinder, I think you have to jump up to the EK43 (which I know is apples and oranges, but makes my point of not too many multi-use grinders).

For pour-over with the steel burrs, you are going to be hard-pressed to be find something as good in the cup and as friendly as the Forte. Weight based grinding or single dosing, it works awesome. I love the ability to use a hopper, hit the button and have it grind out 32.1 g of beans in seconds, dump it in the Kalita and ready to pour. Very easy to use, and very very good in the cup. I was thrilled with the grinder until I went to my local roaster and had their pour over off of their Guatemala. I was in love. If I was amazed by the Forte, I now knew that there was another level with a commercial bulk grinder, and having fallen for the hobby, knew I needed a Guatemala. Now not everyone is willing to shell out 2K and live with a beast of a grinder in their kitchen, but I'm in the group that is fine with that.

Fast forward 6 months. Now I have a Bosco lever and have been pulling awesome espresso with the Forte. It can do a great job with espresso in the cup and it is super friendly. I love on-demand, put portafilter in, hit button, tamp. Can single dose or use the hopper. Switched over to the ceramic burrs and made great shots. Then I got the itch to find out what a top end espresso only grinder can do, so that's where I am now. Options of keeping the Forte for decaf espresso, or more likely helping to finance a titan espresso grinder is where I am at now.

So what to think of the Forte on balance? Build quality is very good, much much better than the Vario. Can grind by time, weight and has portafilter holder or grinds bin. Hoppers are nice and can be switched easily if changing coffees. I think it is a solid 8/10 in the cup, and it is able to be an 8/10 for brew or for espresso. The only grinder that does both styles better is the EK43, which has it's own quirks and is huge and over twice the price. I still admire its range and capabilities is a very small footprint at a good price. It is remarkably versatile.

98% of people would be thrilled with the Forte.

I'm in the 2% that is obsessive enough (and has a VERY understanding and accommodating wife) that wants a titan espresso grinder and a titan bulk grinder with a commercial espresso machine. Thank you HB for letting me know I'm not alone!!!

Cheers,
Matt

Thanks all for the excellent comments. I have to admit, I never thought much of hand grinders. Always thought it was on a separate league, inferior to the commercial electric grinders. But after noting how some value them highly I went and did some research last night. And wow, yes they can be comparable to some electric when it comes to the grind itself. But understanding its limitations, which in my case, are big limitations and would not want to go through all that cranking for a shot of espresso especially when 4-5 ppl are anxiously waiting for a cappuccino at home. By the time I am done grinding the first 3 ppl would be done drinking the cappuccino... not what I want but do value its merits.

In terms of Moderate vs high end grinders debate, I feel much comfortable now with going with the higher end grinder. I do want to taste the different fruit flavors from the coffee. I want to go all in from the start because I tend to hesitate a lot when upgrading machines, which in the end costs more too.

brianl wrote:Most people don't mention an HG One in an initial post because they don't know about it. Easiest thing to do is just ignore a recommendation if you don't agree.

The hand cranking experience is very different from using a conventional motorized grinder. It is unfair to a poster who has not asked about hand grinders to endorse one without mentioning any of its drawbacks, especially when they would be deal killers for most consumers.

Marshall wrote:The hand cranking experience is very different from using a conventional motorized grinder. It is unfair to a poster who has not asked about hand grinders to endorse one without mentioning any of its drawbacks, especially when they would be deal killers for [many] consumers.

+1

Rich

The OP described the K30 as "the very best" without saying much about his criteria beyond price, counter space, and no need to make lots of shots. In that context, I'd say it is unfair to _not_ mention the HG-1. Some have advocated for the HG-1; others (including me) have described drawbacks. OP doesn't seem to have been confused by the advocacy...

Let me just comment on the apparent controversy regarding the promotion of HG-1 grinders. I am convinced that I want an electric grinder for the obvious benefits that many have commented already here. Knowing a bit more about how people feel regarding the HG-1 grinders is a + for me and I don't take it as a pure sales pitch. The HG-1 grinder is cool and does what is built for but it just happens to be not what I am looking for at this moment.

My original post was more geared towards understanding what the "better, top end grinders" would offer over the smaller moderate priced grinders. I think that I understand what the benefits are with these electric top end grinders and feel my original question has been answered. Thanks again for the posts. And for the HG-1 grinder enthusiasts, thanks also, because I think I learned a bit more about the hand grinders and without your comments I probably would have never researched them.

DanSF wrote:The OP described the K30 as "the very best" without saying much about his criteria beyond price, counter space, and no need to make lots of shots. In that context, I'd say it is unfair to _not_ mention the HG-1. Some have advocated for the HG-1; others (including me) have described drawbacks. OP doesn't seem to have been confused by the advocacy...

+1 Well said.

It seems that some of the protests about offering the HG One were more about personal choice / bias than actual restrictions spelled out by the OP.

As always, the commercial vs home grinder topic creates emotion (what's new) which by itself is OK --- many times the real pros / cons come out in these heartfelt discussions --- it's only when one's choice / opinion becomes "right or wrong" does it become counter productive and the threads turn in the wrong direction.

I bought the K30 earlier this year and very happy with the purchase for home use:

- Built like a tank
- Fast
- Noticeable improvement in "the cup" experience versus my cheap $90 Capresso
- Short hopper could be ordered at the same time (not a separate option) and is the perfect size for our family (holds about a week of beans for us)
- Easy to use, just push in the portafilter...easy to adjust as needed
- Quiet
- German Engineered (I only say this because it really does seem like an well engineered piece of equipment, no concerns about reliability)

If money was no object I might wait for the "Peak" version (for what reason I have no idea). However, at $1,600 it was at the "very top" of my budget and have no regrets. It appears the Peak is going to be priced over $2K so it really is not in the same class.

Good Luck!