Improve Texture of Microfoam - Page 2
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- Posts: 63
- Joined: 10 years ago
I used to use 1% milk for frothing, and had a lot of difficulty getting satisfactory results.
I tried 1% milk from several different sources, and didn't notice any difference.
I then tried 2% and whole milk from different sources, and may have gotten a very slight improvement.
Then I switched to organic whole milk, and all my difficulties disappeared.
I have tried organic milk from two or three different sources, and have not been able to detect the difference between them.
Because I have got satisfactory results from organic whole milk, I have never tried reduced fat or skimmed organic milks, but I think I will try.
Alan
I tried 1% milk from several different sources, and didn't notice any difference.
I then tried 2% and whole milk from different sources, and may have gotten a very slight improvement.
Then I switched to organic whole milk, and all my difficulties disappeared.
I have tried organic milk from two or three different sources, and have not been able to detect the difference between them.
Because I have got satisfactory results from organic whole milk, I have never tried reduced fat or skimmed organic milks, but I think I will try.
Alan
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- Posts: 24
- Joined: 9 years ago
Glad to hear it is the operator and not the machine - saves me $$$ and an extra bev a day for training purposes is always good news.
I've been using Sealtest Skim Milk (Toronto). I'll give 2% (regular and organic) and see where that gets me. Any T.'shave suggestions? Pretty sure my refernece cafe (Dark Horse) uses Naturel 2%.
My current technique it to tilt the jug and surf the tip with a good whirlpool. Very light little gulps of air - no big chugs of air. Once volume has increased by 35% (jug picking up temp) I sink the tip and flatten the jug to maintain whirlpool and finish to temp. I find I gain another 15% volume in this process.
I'm after a dessert like mouthfeel and want the MF to mix through espresso, not float on top. If I've surfed the top a little too long I get a top layer of foam that is think and floats.
I've been using Sealtest Skim Milk (Toronto). I'll give 2% (regular and organic) and see where that gets me. Any T.'shave suggestions? Pretty sure my refernece cafe (Dark Horse) uses Naturel 2%.
My current technique it to tilt the jug and surf the tip with a good whirlpool. Very light little gulps of air - no big chugs of air. Once volume has increased by 35% (jug picking up temp) I sink the tip and flatten the jug to maintain whirlpool and finish to temp. I find I gain another 15% volume in this process.
I'm after a dessert like mouthfeel and want the MF to mix through espresso, not float on top. If I've surfed the top a little too long I get a top layer of foam that is think and floats.
Van G
- boar_d_laze
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How much milk are you steaming in how large a pitcher? And how long does it take?Van G wrote:Glad to hear it is the operator and not the machine - saves me $$$ and an extra bev a day for training purposes is always good news...
Rich
Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator
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- Posts: 24
- Joined: 9 years ago
20 oz pitcher
10 oz per drink
haven't timed specifically but under 30 seconds
10 oz per drink
haven't timed specifically but under 30 seconds
Van G
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- Posts: 205
- Joined: 9 years ago
Van G,
Yes, look to hardware as the LAST thing that's causing the problem! It's kind of like computer problems: The 1st and foremost cause is Operator Error, the 2nd is a software issue, and a way distant 3rd is defective hardware.
Just keep at it and at some point you will see improvement.
At the very most, you could try different (# of holes) steam tips to see if that makes the difference you seek, but that's all the "hardware" you need to look at really, not the machine or its capabilities -- in your case, a Rocket Giotto!
As mentioned, my VBM Super HX came with a 2-hole steam-tip, and it works fine. My micro-foaming technique/skill is not yet good/consistent enough for me to blame the OEM tip. LATER, I may try other tips just to see how they work...but not now, because now & then I DO get the foam I want, so I KNOW the tip is capable of producing it -- it's just ME not able to find the exact technique and do it consistently.
Yet.
Good luck,
-- BR
Yes, look to hardware as the LAST thing that's causing the problem! It's kind of like computer problems: The 1st and foremost cause is Operator Error, the 2nd is a software issue, and a way distant 3rd is defective hardware.
Just keep at it and at some point you will see improvement.
At the very most, you could try different (# of holes) steam tips to see if that makes the difference you seek, but that's all the "hardware" you need to look at really, not the machine or its capabilities -- in your case, a Rocket Giotto!
As mentioned, my VBM Super HX came with a 2-hole steam-tip, and it works fine. My micro-foaming technique/skill is not yet good/consistent enough for me to blame the OEM tip. LATER, I may try other tips just to see how they work...but not now, because now & then I DO get the foam I want, so I KNOW the tip is capable of producing it -- it's just ME not able to find the exact technique and do it consistently.
Yet.
Good luck,
-- BR
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- Posts: 24
- Joined: 9 years ago
Thought my technique was good but apparently not.
Any good vidz on producing good mirco foam? Ones I viewed in the past when I first got my machine didn't really capture technique well.
Off to buy some 2% and whole milk.
Any good vidz on producing good mirco foam? Ones I viewed in the past when I first got my machine didn't really capture technique well.
Off to buy some 2% and whole milk.
Van G
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- Posts: 205
- Joined: 9 years ago
Van G,
I hope you don't think I was blaming your technique and think FOR SURE it's your technique. I don't KNOW for sure, since as I stated I'm no micro-foaming expert. It's just that in most cases, if one DOES have a capable espresso machine (a decent steamer), then it's very likely to be one's technique that's the issue -- assuming all else is equal (using cold milk, a cold pitcher, etc.).
For specific example, I froth very small amounts of milk, which is lots harder to do as you've little time to work it (not hard for an experienced Barista, but certainly so for a newbie). In the beginning, I turned the steaming knob so it was only steaming about 1/4 "power" if you will (or less?)...and all I did (for the longest time) was warm-up the milk, not FROTH it! I had read somewhere that I didn't NEED to turn the steam up much if using such small amounts of milk, so that's what I was doing -- it never worked! Then, I tried turning the steam up MORE and suddenly, consistent frothing success -- but yes, I did have to work fast due to the small amount of milk in the pitcher.
Point is, my machine AND the OEM steam-tip was capable ALL ALONG but I was just an inept detective looking for clues.
So now that I can get foam consistently, I look forward to getting more "sophisticated" and CONTROL the types of foam/ratio of foam I want to get. Well, I hope so, in time...
-- BR
I hope you don't think I was blaming your technique and think FOR SURE it's your technique. I don't KNOW for sure, since as I stated I'm no micro-foaming expert. It's just that in most cases, if one DOES have a capable espresso machine (a decent steamer), then it's very likely to be one's technique that's the issue -- assuming all else is equal (using cold milk, a cold pitcher, etc.).
For specific example, I froth very small amounts of milk, which is lots harder to do as you've little time to work it (not hard for an experienced Barista, but certainly so for a newbie). In the beginning, I turned the steaming knob so it was only steaming about 1/4 "power" if you will (or less?)...and all I did (for the longest time) was warm-up the milk, not FROTH it! I had read somewhere that I didn't NEED to turn the steam up much if using such small amounts of milk, so that's what I was doing -- it never worked! Then, I tried turning the steam up MORE and suddenly, consistent frothing success -- but yes, I did have to work fast due to the small amount of milk in the pitcher.
Point is, my machine AND the OEM steam-tip was capable ALL ALONG but I was just an inept detective looking for clues.
So now that I can get foam consistently, I look forward to getting more "sophisticated" and CONTROL the types of foam/ratio of foam I want to get. Well, I hope so, in time...
-- BR
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- Posts: 24
- Joined: 9 years ago
BR - no offense taken on my part - no problems trying to change/improve on my end. Thanks for the posts. Will be changing a few things up this weekend to see what I come up with.
Van G