Update:
I got the PID Kit.
But, there is a problem installing it.
I have to remove the old temp sensor with a 17mm wrench.
The bolt is frozen. I can't budge it.

I don't know if it is safe to try using a penetrating oil.
A handyman / plumber in my building tried to remove it and failed. He also tried using a hammer and screwdriver to break it loose. It did not work. He said he did not think an impact wrench would help.

Any ideas?

werbin,

You could use a butane mini-torch...these can direct their tiny flames to a specific area (put heat-shielding asbestos cloth like welders/plumbers use) or something else around the bolt to protect adjacent parts from heat. Heat up the bolt/nut and see if that will loosen it. Use a Vise-Grip locking plier on it (if you have one), too: I've gotten really TIGHT bolts/nuts off using a Vise-Grip. As you mention, penetrating oil may be needed to BE SURE you've tried (almost) everything to free it.

Or, maybe something like this (just FYI, I'm not recommending it as I don't know anything about it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBem2EE ... detailpage

If all that fails and you can't remove the bolt, then surely it's a bad omen and the espresso gods have spoken -- you must heed their warning and:

1. Send the PID back.

2. Go outside and set your Brewtus II out on the curb.

3. Go back inside, get on your PC and order a Brewtus IV immediately.

Frozen bolt problem solved...



-- BR

The PID upgrade kit from WLL came with a replacement temp sensor.
I don't know why.
In any case, when I tried removing the old sensor, the wires broke off. It will not work anymore.

Bill Redding,
There are too many parts in the way to use a Vise Grip.
A bolt extractor socket might work. That would be a last resort as it has to be hammered on to the frozen socket.

According to the WLL web site, the Brewtus IV is totally out of stock.
I don't know why.

I also don't know why the price of the Brewtus IV & other European Espresso machines have not dropped as the euro has lost a lot of its value.

werbin,

Well, you've had the Brewtus II since 2007 (8 years now) and it's served you well during that time (I suppose). It's sad that just one part is causing you this trouble, but give it some more time to solve the problem and then maybe it's time ("fate") to give up? You were already looking ahead when you asked "If my Brewtus II dies what should I get" question, so maybe soon it will be the time to remove your beloved Brewtus II's life-support plug, give it Last Rites, and get a new machine. R.I.P. Brewtus II...

For now, you can keep working on the frozen bolt problem (don't give up yet), maybe even take it into a old-timer Mom & Pop auto-service shop for help (mechanics deal with frozen/rusted bolts often). Or maybe even an Old-Timer handyman could help. IIRC, you said a plumber couldn't free it but you could try another plumber for a "2nd opinion." Yet at some point, the frustration may no longer be worth the effort...but that's for you to decide, how much more time & patience you are prepared to expend.

At this same time, especially since Whole Latte Love is out of Brewtus IVs presently (yeah, what's up with that? Are Brewtus IV's that popular? If so, then stock MORE of them, yes?). Anyway, in the meantime -- while the Elves in Spain are feverishly fabricating (!) more Brewtus IV machines -- check out some other brand of similarly-priced machines: Quick Mill, for example, or maybe Rocket. Or maybe stay with Expobar and get an Office Lever ($1049) or Office Lever Plus ($1149) instead of a Brewtus IV ($1749--$2005)? Or a "Refurbished," "Open Box" or "Buyer's Remorse" Brewtus IV (that would save you some $$) -- if WLL has any?

If for no other reason, you could research these options to pass the time while you wait for the frozen bolt to take personal responsibility for its actions and remove itself.

Sorry to hear of your continued misadventures, but it will end soon, one way or the other: Either you remove the frozen bolt out and get your Brewtus II back up and running or, you decide it's just time to move on. But if you DO get a Brewtus IV or a Quick Mill or Rocket, note how easy (or not) they are to wok on inside in case you ever have to get in there to do anything (note if the current Brewtus IV STILL has that bolt in the same inaccessible place, for example). My Vibiemme, being a single-boiler HX machine, has much more room and space around it's boiler to get to it and assorted other parts, so if/when the times comes for me to work in there, it will be LOTS easier than working on a cramped DB machine.

And speaking of Vibiemme, mine is beeping at me (warmed-up now) so I need to go make some 'spresso! So if you'll excuse now...

Keep us informed of your continuing saga...

Good luck,

-- BR

P.S. As for pricing, maybe the currently-imported Expobars WILL be cheaper. Perhaps the earlier ones were bought by American distributors/importers -- actually, just ONE importer since ONLY Whole Latte Love carries Expobar in the US -- at higher prices so they owned them at those higher prices -- and to get their $$ out of them, passed higher prices along to customers (at least shipping from Spain to WLL was only to the East Coast and not West Coast, or THAT may have been added to pricing also).

So maybe NEW machines coming in WILL reflect the Euro's decline in value vs. the US Dollar. If not -- if Expobars are still expensive -- remember that you had your Brewtus II for 8 years, may have a Brewtus IV for the same 8 years, so that initial price "high" price amortized over those 8 years really isn't THAT much, so don't be too "frugal" when coming up with your new machine budget.

Remember this old (1712) English idiom: "Penny-wise, Pound-foolish" -- sometimes it's OKAY to be the latter. Trust me. Really.

-- BR

Bill Redding.
I am surviving on French Press coffee in the morning. Barely.

My Brewtus II is now at my auto mechanic. Big Toyota place where I know the chief mechanic.
He says it looks difficult (thin rounded bolt) but he will give it a try.
I got some CRC Chemicals "food grade penetrating oil " for him that he promises to use gently.
Auto mechanics are used to working with frozen bolts. I am trying to be optimistic.
I should find out in a few days if it is still alive and well.

I am wondering why the Brewtus IV was out of stock.
My guess is either that the Brewtus V is about to arrive or they are renegotiating pricing with Expobar in light of the euro collapse which should have lowered USA prices on imported espresso machines. The importers are either gaining a windfall profit or more likely have locked in long term currency conversion rates to protect themselves against the collapse of the dollar vs euro.

I spoke to the technical people at Whole Latte Love and asked them what espresso machine they currently favored.
The answer was the Profitec Pro 700 .
http://www.wholelattelove.com/products/ ... so-machine

Interesting. Looks very good on paper and in the video they have.
The specs suggest that it will be more durable and easier to maintain than the Brewtus.

Stainless steel boilers. Internally the electronic control boards are in a separate area than the boilers.
I think, based on my Brewtus II that their big design problem is that the electronics are close to the high temp boilers. This caused the plastic and the wires to become brittle and fail. I have had to do several repairs by myself over the years.

Other interesting features: dual PID, display turns into a timer when you start to pull shots.
insulated steam wand, with a four-hole steam tip
Convertible from water reservoir to plumbed in.

Negatives.
3" wider than Brewtus IV.
$700 more expensive.

Yes, the Profitec 700 IS more expensive (and beyond your budget, IIRC)...so I thought it was not under consideration because of that fact alone. But if you ARE willing to go that high, then any of the other home/prosumer DBs in this class would be in the running also.

The Profitec is Italian-made, so most of the parts in it are much the same as the other Italian-made brands in this class...which may be one big difference from the Spanish Expobar. Don't know about its components layout vs. an Expobar.

Still a DB machine will be pretty cramped inside regardless of who makes it, so working on it will be tight regardless.

-- BR

The Profitec 700 is outside my price range. It may not be much more expensive in the long run if it is less prone to repair costs.
But, I am frustrated repairing the Brewtus.
What are other options in that price range?
Possibly the Brewtus IV has a better build quality than the Brewtus II.

What do you think about the Profitec 500. It is a HX not a double boiler.
It seems to claim that you can steam & brew at the same time. I am not sure if that is true.
It costs a little less than the Brewtus IV.

werbin,

Did you read my earlier response, about considering an Expobar Office Lever or Office Lever Plus instead of a Brewtus IV (if you want to stay with Expobar)?

As for HX machines, yes, you definitely CAN steam & brew at the same time -- no problem!

In fact, MOST commercial/coffee-shop espresso machines in Italy (for decades now) have been using HX machines. So for a budget of $1500-2000, you can get a mighty fine upscale HX home/prosumer machine (in fact, *I* have one) whereas the same budget will only get you the lower-rung (but still decent) DB machines. For DBs -- as we have already discussed earlier -- you'd need to have a budget of approx. $2000 to $2800 (Profitc being at the top end of this bracket). The NEXT class of machines are in the higher bracket: About $4K (such as the Vesuvius) up to $9K...so rule them out (for ME, too, but in 2-3 years, I'll probably get one of them myself, likely a Kees van der Westen...but I digress as this ain't about ME, it's about YOU).

Anyway, please note that HX machines usually do NOT use a PID, so you will not have that precise control over the boiler temperature. Regardless, that's not a negative, as HX machines don't NEED a PID by nature of their very efficient design. Further, since they only have one boiler (but NOT to be confused with a SBDU machine), there's less to go wrong with an HX vs. a DB machine (I'm not bashing DBs, just stating a simple fact) so an HX's reliability factor is higher.

Furthermore, some people have reported that their DB machine does not have the strong steaming they were expecting -- meaning DB machines running on 110v (15A or 20A) -- as EITHER the steam boiler or the BREW boiler gets power (preference goes to the brew boiler, IIRC), but not BOTH at the same time. They also say the European versions of the same model DB machines do FINE on 220v and steaming is FINE. I'm not sure of that (although it makes sense to me), but you need to research it. An HX machine has only ONE boiler, so this "2 boilers sharing limited power" is not an issue -- the one boiler of an HX gets ALL the power ALL the time it needs it (even @ 110v/15A), and an HX's boiler is set at STEAM temperature (set via a pressurestat) not BREW temperature -- as per the HX's design.

Related to this, some users have reported that their US version (110v) Rocket 58 (for example) to be a poor steamer, but the European version (IIRC, there is one) of the 58 on 220v does just fine. Also, I read one post that said his Vibiemme (AKA: VBM) DB was also poor at steaming. I find this really surprising since the Vibiemme Domobar DB is specifically designed to run WELL on 110v/15A...so I can't believe it's a "poor steamer." And frankly, it's only ONE post I read that was negative on the VBM DB.

On the other hand, some users of a Quick Mill Vetrano 2B have no issues with steaming, even though they are 110v also (15A or 20A) -- and even though they ALSO have a 4-hole steam tip.

So what do *I* get out of this (and might others who are considering a DB machine)?

Someone posted that (if I may paraphrase): "In the 110v/15A world (meaning here in America), the HX machine is king."

I would agree.

But then (as mentioned), if the Vetrano DOES do well steaming, then THAT machine should be on someone's DB Shopping Short List as most DBs don't (apparently) do steaming that well on limited 110v/15A power.

When I recently purchased my machine, I could have gotten either a HX or DB (I had the $$$$ for either), but chose the HX. And I didn't feel I was "settling" for anything. IMO (and as per other members here and on other espresso Forums) a DB and HX do pretty much the SAME thing and get the SAME results -- they just do it differently.

Yes, I have to do cooling flushes (and DB machines may have to do heating flushes) if the machine has been sitting idle for a while (the length of the cooling flush depends on how long it's been sitting idle) but an HX machine is designed so well, the group-head hovers around 200 F VERY consistently. It's amazing. Additionally, if one wants to, there's a Taylor group-head thermometer (about $100) that can be installed in an HX's E-61 group-head to give a digital temp reading. However, it does not measure the water temp actually going into the puck (as it's located higher up in the assembly, and there's no way to set it to a differential/offset temp as you can do with a PID/DB machine), but water going on its way TO the puck, so the temp reading may be 4-5 degrees off -- which is too much for me so I have not gotten that device (I MIGHT, but have not YET).

Anyway, it's your choice: for your budget, get a top-end home/prosumer HX machine (including the Bezzera BZ07 ($1349 to $1549) -- see Bezzera dealer 1st Line Equipment)...a brand I left out earlier, as it's an HX, not a DB as you were looking for) or, your budget or will need to bump up to get a DB machine, something like a Quick Mill Vetrano 2B ($2395 presently @ Chris' Coffee Service)...do not recall complaints about the Vetrano's steaming.

Yes, the Profitec Pro 500 ($1699 "on sale" @ WholeLatteLove now) -- a "lightweight" though @ 51.7 lbs as my Vibiemme HX is 62 -- should get serious consideration if you're considering/comparing HX machines. You've seen this video on it, yes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjyE2B4o2Ak

[Note that the video shows you how much ROOM there is inside of the case of an HX machine -- compared to a DB machine -- so easier access to work on it]

But since the Profitecs are fairly new on the scene (compared to the more "traditional" brands around for decades), they may have "teething issues" much like a new model of anything has (one complaint was leaks). For sure, they are not "tried and true" like other machines that have been around for years, where the major bugs have been worked out. But why does a more expensive Proftiec have a painted steel frame (that needs drip-tray slide-protectors) instead of a complete stainless-steel frame? Don't get that...

EDIT: Oops! The 500 doesn't have the driptray slide protectors -- it's the 700 that does.

Also take a look at Letit HX machines also @ 1st Line Equipment:
-- Lelit PL62T Mara Heat Exchange Commercial Espresso Machine - PID ($1399)
-- Lelit PL62S Mara Heat Exchange Commercial Espresso Machine ($1249)
...Lelit even makes a DB:
-- Lelit PL60PLUST Diana PID Double Boiler Espresso Machine with Dual Pumps ($1199)

Or look at the Expobar Office Lever/Office Lever Plus models (as mentioned).

It seems you're still not clear on what you want -- DB or HX...you can't go further until you have finally decided (and no waivering). And if you DO want a decent DB, you'll have to reconsider your budget upwards a few hundred $$.

Like buying a computer, you must be CLEAR re: what you want to DO with it (your tasks and the software you'll use) -- what it's mission will be -- THEN you can choose the hardware to DO it...within a budget of course (or make it a bit higher if need be). Same with an espresso machine: Be CLEAR what you want to DO, then choose the machine within your budget to DO it. If there isn't a machine that works for you within your budget, then either forget the whole thing, reduce your expectations, or increase your budget. Or buy used.

And of course, if you finally DO decide and are ready to order, get it from a reputable dealer who WILL be there AFTER the sale or, if you need to return it, they allow returns. Just in case...

-- BR