LIDO 2 vs. Mahlkonig EK43 vs. Baratza Vario/Forte
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Have there been any laser diffraction comparisons of the Lido 2 vs EK43? Does the EK43 produce "better" particle morphology than conicals like the Lido 2 (ie rounder rather than American football shaped)?
I posted this question on page 2 but changed the title to reflect it so I will put it here too: "Who would rate the Vario or Forte both with steel burrs in between the Lido 2 and EK43? Or on par with Lido 2. All for brew not espresso. And if in between closer to the Lido 2 or the EK 43?"
ADDED: Who would rate the Vario or Forte both with steel burrs in between the Lido 2 and EK43? Or on par with Lido 2. All for brew not espresso. And if in between closer to the Lido 2 or the EK 43?
I posted this question on page 2 but changed the title to reflect it so I will put it here too: "Who would rate the Vario or Forte both with steel burrs in between the Lido 2 and EK43? Or on par with Lido 2. All for brew not espresso. And if in between closer to the Lido 2 or the EK 43?"
ADDED: Who would rate the Vario or Forte both with steel burrs in between the Lido 2 and EK43? Or on par with Lido 2. All for brew not espresso. And if in between closer to the Lido 2 or the EK 43?
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I have both and the results differ quite a bit with the ek producing very consistent sized none slender particles. The ek43 particles are much rounder as well.
In the cup this does come across with the ek43 being less bitter but it also means that the flavor can be less dynamic. The ek43 is clear while the lido has a high and low spectrum of flavors. MY preference is for the EK for brew and right now the lido for espresso but that really is the bean speaking! It wasn't a great roast and the ek43 will expose that.
I am done reading distribution graphs. I also like different grinds depending on what I feel like or what the bean might like. Not all beans will agree with the big flat burrs of the ek. I have had some very good roasts that tasted better off a conical grinder. This is why I have a e10 on order:)
In the cup this does come across with the ek43 being less bitter but it also means that the flavor can be less dynamic. The ek43 is clear while the lido has a high and low spectrum of flavors. MY preference is for the EK for brew and right now the lido for espresso but that really is the bean speaking! It wasn't a great roast and the ek43 will expose that.
I am done reading distribution graphs. I also like different grinds depending on what I feel like or what the bean might like. Not all beans will agree with the big flat burrs of the ek. I have had some very good roasts that tasted better off a conical grinder. This is why I have a e10 on order:)
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Thanks it's great to hear from someone who has both.
I used to have a Kony E but sold it and got the Lido 2 which I'm using for filter. If I'm doing mainly filter and can one day afford the EK would you say it's giving you a much better experience for brew and more consistent?
Are you sifting grinds at all? I've found removing boulders from the Lido 2 has resulted in a much sweeter and evenly extracted cup.
I used to have a Kony E but sold it and got the Lido 2 which I'm using for filter. If I'm doing mainly filter and can one day afford the EK would you say it's giving you a much better experience for brew and more consistent?
Are you sifting grinds at all? I've found removing boulders from the Lido 2 has resulted in a much sweeter and evenly extracted cup.
- RedMan
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I doubt you'll see that comparison anytime soon. The only particle analysis and comparisons published publicly of the ek43 vs other high end grinders still seems to be the M.Perger one from 2013 (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong) and still the one always referred to when 'proving' its lead in even/unimodal grounds output, besides anecdotal experiences of course. It was done at Mahlkönig's factory and mr.Perger of course also fronts/sells the ek43. http://mattperger.com/The-EK43-Part-Two#.VPbWw_nF9yw First line reads: "In October, I visited Mahlkonig in Hamburg to conduct some tests at their factory. We wanted to understand more about the EK43 and why it makes coffee taste better"bytheway wrote:Have there been any laser diffraction comparisons of the Lido 2 vs EK43? Does the EK43 produce "better" particle morphology than conicals like the Lido 2 (ie rounder rather than American football shaped)?
Not doubting it is a fantastic grinder, also for espresso. It's on my shortlist for a future big flat-burr grinder for dual-use, but what would be interesting is to also see it compared to other bulk/retail grinders like the ditting 804 and 1203 and the compak r80, r100 and r120, and by people who weren't selling them.
Besides, wouldn't comparing it to a lido 2 be a bit like comparing a 4wd suv to a bicycle?
Both serve their purpose well and get you from a to b across different terrains, but at very different comfort levels, noise levels, power and space requirements, speeds and costs.
Very happy with my lido 2 and use it daily at work for brews and enjoy the coffee. It is great for what it is, a high quality portable hand-grinder. But my baratza vario with steel burrs at home is a noticeable step up in grind quality compared to the lido, so I would be very surprised (and disappointed) if I got a bulk/retail grinder like the ek43 and found that filter/brewed coffee didn't improve. If that commercial grade monstrosity with its 98mm flat burrs spinning at 1500 rpm didn't give superior results over the hand-driven 40mm conical burrs of the lido it would be sent right back to the store.
I recommend a vario with steel burrs if you want an intermediate step up in grind quality for brew/filter between the Lido 2 and these big bulk/retail grinders. (If I lived in the U.S. I would have built a bunnzilla with the ditting 804 burrs already, as that seems to be at the top of the performance/cost ratio ladder based on many people's experiences here on the forum.)
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Great post. I actually don't care about the graphs just the taste. I do like the science side of it too though.
Good to know about the Vario being a step up from the Lido. Might use that as a stepping stone to an EK43 or hopefully a new grinder not yet released that is more impressive than the EK43.
In your opinion, are steel burrs essential for the Vario? What is the cost for this option, and do you have to fit it yourself? I'm in Australia.
Good to know about the Vario being a step up from the Lido. Might use that as a stepping stone to an EK43 or hopefully a new grinder not yet released that is more impressive than the EK43.
In your opinion, are steel burrs essential for the Vario? What is the cost for this option, and do you have to fit it yourself? I'm in Australia.
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If your just doing coarse use, steel burrs are well worth it. The ceramic burr set is geared towards espresso grinds. Actually been to a shop by wife's fam house up north that had a couple Varios with steel burrs, each dialed in for specific brew (drip, press, pour over etc).
- RedMan
- Posts: 113
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Not essential but I agree with Chris that it is well worth it if you use it for brewed coffee. I paid $60 USD for a pair of the steel burrs and you can get them directly from baratza.com. If you buy a new Vario (or Forte) I think you also can get it delivered with the steel burrs instead of the ceramic ones.bytheway wrote:In your opinion, are steel burrs essential for the Vario? What is the cost for this option, and do you have to fit it yourself? I'm in Australia.
It's easy to change the burrs, it can be done in 10 minutes. Both are attached with three screws and the only tool you need is a flat screwdriver.
PS. Baratza sells refurbished grinders from their online store sometimes at reduced prices.
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Thanks for the tip! And the advice...RedMan wrote:PS. Baratza sells refurbished grinders from their online store sometimes at reduced prices.
- Boldjava
- Posts: 2765
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...and they refresh/post the refurbs once a week, Thursdays. Grab 'em when you see them as they don't stick around.
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LMWDP #339
LMWDP #339
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I will agree on the vario steel burrs. I have that grinder at work and have been very happy with the results. If I didn't have the ek already, I would consider the vario as my brew grinder.
The forte is the real winner though. The vario is still a plastic grinder with a smaller motor that may be fine for a while but the construction leaves room for improvement. The vario at work was a refurb and I went through two grinders and finally combined parts from the replacement with the previous replacement to get a grinder that worked decently. There is an advantage to buying new!
The forte is the real winner though. The vario is still a plastic grinder with a smaller motor that may be fine for a while but the construction leaves room for improvement. The vario at work was a refurb and I went through two grinders and finally combined parts from the replacement with the previous replacement to get a grinder that worked decently. There is an advantage to buying new!