ECM Giotto died and need a bit of help - Page 5

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
buddysharp (original poster)
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#41: Post by buddysharp (original poster) »

Hi Eric & David,

Hard to tell, but I looked at the screws on this machine carefully and I would bet it had never been opened since new. The amount of corrosion, rust scaling and evidence of leaks, as well as the absolutely fossilized gasket in the GH tend to make me believe this is the original pstat and no maintenance has been performed. Admittedly, I am a novice though.

I contacted Stefano, and as per his reputation, he was helpful and sourced both a new pstat and new tube with compression fittings on both ends so as soon as my package arrives, I should be ready to roll. I'll stick with the mater for now and see how it performs.

This also gives me a few days to do some additional cleaning and polishing, as well as tackle cleaning up the gh and repairing rust on the black frame, protecting wires, etc.

I am taking pictures throughout and hoping to put together a pictorial of the teardown and reassembly, for what it's worth.

I would like to check the load on the heating element but lack the expertise to test with my multimeter; I was unable to find guidance on how to test the load. Any suggestions appreciated!

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homeburrero
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#42: Post by homeburrero »

buddysharp wrote:Pat, curious as to why you went with the CEME; I think I recall from your assembly diagram that you included a relay switch as well? Interested to hear your rationale and any guidance on how to wire it in - since I'm replacing the pstat anyway and I'm going to try to source a tube, I may as well explore the use of a better pstat.
I saw CEME and Mater pretty much as a tossup in quality and price, and since my old one was a CEME I went with that. In retrospect was a good call because I might have had some frustration getting the Mater oriented properly on that fixed fitting.

I had a special motivation for adding the relay. My machine has what I think is an unfortunate Gicar (9.9.04.77G):



...in which both of the pstat wires are connected to the controller, and a relay in the controller switches the element on/off based on the pStat. I managed to burn out the relay in my controller twice, and took the advice of jpboyt (who repaired my relays) and added an external relay to handle the element load. Now only a small current goes through my controller relay as well as my pStat switch. I opted for a mechanical relay because I felt it good enough for this purpose, and easier to rig up inside my machine than an SSR and heatsink would have been.
buddysharp wrote:I would like to check the load on the heating element but lack the expertise to test with my multimeter; I was unable to find guidance on how to test the load. Any suggestions appreciated!
Pull the connecting wires off the element and test it with an ohmmeter. A 115V 1200Watt element should read about 11 ohm. In general, you take the square of the voltage and divide by the wattage to get the resistance in ohms. A steady value in the ballpark is good, the actual value will depend a bit on the temperature of the element. To test for shorts you can measure the resistance between each element terminal and the base (ground) of the element, but this isn't reliable. Some shorts won't show up on a regular multimeter. If it does not trip a working GFCI outlet you should be OK with respect to shorts.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

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cuppajoe
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#43: Post by cuppajoe »

erics wrote:I would be neutral as regards the use of a contact relay so I hope that I never recommended one. Pat (homeburrero) uses one (successfully) so that is the likely source. I am, naturally, a big fan of SSR's (and simplified control schemes) as my aging Anita utilizes one as original configuration.
My Anita is plugging away as well. So far it has required nothing done to it since cleaning it up and rebuilding the E61. Nice machine to use and simple to service, some good engineering went into it. As the shell and frame are stainless, it's one big heat sink for the SSR.
David - LMWDP 448

My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits

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bluesman
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#44: Post by bluesman »

homeburrero wrote: In general, you take the square of the voltage and divide by the wattage to get the resistance in ohms.
It may be easier for many (like me) to use the simple formulae wattage = volts x amps and volts = amps x ohms. 1200W at 120V (for simplicity - 115 would change this only a tiny bit) means a current flow of 10A. And 120 volts will move 10A through a resistance of 12 ohms.

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homeburrero
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#45: Post by homeburrero »

bluesman wrote:It may be easier for many (like me) to use the simple formulae wattage = volts x amps and volts = amps x ohms.
Is the same formula, but I agree is easier to do it in two steps if you have those two equations (Joule's law and Ohm's law) firmly in your memory. Here's a nifty chart from Wikimedia commons (by Matt Rider) that shows all the handy algebraic rearrangements of the basic formulae:

Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

buddysharp (original poster)
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#46: Post by buddysharp (original poster) »

Thanks for the tips on evaluating the heating element. It appears to be fine based on resistance measure.

Last of the parts arrived today from Stefano and I began assembly on the boiler - bit of a disaster. On my first trial reassembly, I had felt this fitting was a bit soft but couldn't see any sign of fracture. But as soon as I put my small wrench to it this evening, it gave out. I think it is a 1/4 male (boiler) to 1/4 male BSPT (6mm pipe end) but it disintegrated on the boiler side so tough to tell the size. I've inserted backwards in the below photo to see if I could "feel" the threads but no luck.

Doubting anyone in my area has one but suggestions welcome on identification and possible purchase retail brickes&mortar locations.





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erics
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#47: Post by erics »

It is a 1/8" BSPP male to male fitting. 1/8" BSPP threads have an OD of ~ 0.383". Stefano likely has this but, if not, contact me via my email below my sig.
Skål,

Eric S.
http://users.rcn.com/erics/
E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

buddysharp (original poster)
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#48: Post by buddysharp (original poster) »

Hi Eric,

Thanks. I'll ring up Stefano in the morning. I've never seen one a fitting disintegrate like this one. It appears like clay inside of the plating. Is this from the heat of the boiler changing the structure of the metal somehow? I'm of course concerned now that the rest of the fittings may be in similar condition - since I have it disassembled should I replace the others I wonder? This is very used 2003 ECM Giotto btw.

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jubarim
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#49: Post by jubarim »

Hi buddysharp,

I just read the full topic. I am curious, are there any updates on the Giotto?

buddysharp (original poster)
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Joined: 9 years ago

#50: Post by buddysharp (original poster) »

Hi,

Sorry about not completing the thread. Yes, the Giotto came back to life nicely, although it could use a rebuild on the group head to be truly complete. I found the sensors on the water tank to be finicky and they still fail occasionally and I have to pull out the emory board.

Recently, during a de-scaling flush, the machine tripped the GFCI it is connected to after running the pump for a while. It has since been intermittently popping the GFCI with no recognizable pattern. So, I'm working with another contact on the site to go through some diagnostics.

Overall, good machine but turned out to be a more expensive a rebuild than I anticipated. Stefano was kind enough to send me the proper fittings to replace the deteriorated ones, as well as send me a pipe with fittings that I could use when things didn't line up as expected. He was also incredibly helpful with sourcing parts and working through the details. He, along with others on the site, were invaluable in getting things up an running.

She's a beauty, but she's very Italian.

Buddy

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