Hi Forums.

So, the reason I want to know how good the hario hand grinder is because I am thinking about upgrading my espresso making setup, and a lot of people say that good grinder first. I can't spend money for both new espresso machine and grinder, so I have to choose one of them. I own hario mini mill, and it's been working great! So I was thinking that it could still do the work with my new espresso machine though on the other hand, I don't know how good the hario grinder is. I only make one or two espresso in a day, so grinding time is not the problem. I just don't know how well the hario grinder grinds coffee beans, like consistency and grind size. Do you think I should get a new espresso machine first since I have hario grinder, or should I get better grinder first?

Thank you!

I think the grinder is always most important. You can make brewed coffee using a new grinder until you get enough money for a new machine. However, if you get a new machine, I think you'll be hard-pressed with the hario mini mill.

I found the Mini Mill to be quite inconsistent and the steps to be too large to deal with the fines it produced... Choking or gushing for espresso... Barely tolerable for aeropress. There are quite a few ideas for modding the Mill to improve it, however, such as using teflon tape to stabilise the shaft and using lock nuts to assist with a stepless adjustment.

I don't think anyone will dispute, go for a grinder upgrade first. It's always the best advice anyone around here takes, as if you go with a machine first you'll find out pretty fast that your grinder will need upgrading in short order.

A Hario may work for espresso if you're talking about a small-diameter lever machine, they are usually more forgiving of grind size and allow you to extract some decent shots from even fairly "stale" coffee. I say stale in quotes because some Italian beans actually are meant to be pulled pretty old and their roast date isn't too critical.

Either way, going with a better grinder will never hurt, and if it means delaying your entry into espresso you'll be happy you skip the entry level grinders and machines. They are a big headache to get anything decent out of, and usually leave owners frustrated and wanting to either upgrade or quit all together.

What kind of espresso machine are you considering? What is your budget?

Thank you all for replying. It looks like everyone recommends upgrading a grinder first, and I think so too. I will consider getting a better grinder first.

I found the Mini Mill to be quite inconsistent and the steps to be too large to deal with the fines it produced

Thank you for your comment on Hario hand grinder. I have never tried good grinder so, I didn't know how good the hario hand grinder was. Now that you say that, I found some inconsistency of Hario hand grinder in the past.

What kind of espresso machine are you considering? What is your budget?

Actually, I have never owned or used an espresso machine before, and that is kind of why I wanted to get an espresso machine for my home. I haven't decide the budget yet, but let's say $400 (could +$100) because I know that this is the range where you can start getting a decent quality espresso machines or grinders, and I can't spend more than that... I was thinking about Silvia for an espresso machine, or some others close to that.

Drop all your budget on a vario or similar. Get an espresso machine later on. I recommend against the Silvia if you choose this route

recommend against the Silvia if you choose this route

Could you explain more about this? I'm sorry I am not Native English speaker so I don't quite understand what you mean by that. I also saw Vario vs Rocky review on youtube by Seattle Coffee Gear, and seems like they are similar except that Rocky is cheaper. Could you also tell me why would you get Vario over Rocky??
Thank you very much :)

Basically for espresso you want to get a step-less adjustment grinder which allows you to fine-tune the grind size. This is important. The Rocky is a stepped grinder and the Vario is technically stepped, but it has 230 steps / micro-steps for fine tuning! The Rocky used to be popular but has since been surpassed by newer and better grinders.

EspressoForge wrote:I don't think anyone will dispute, go for a grinder upgrade first. It's always the best advice anyone around here takes, as if you go with a machine first you'll find out pretty fast that your grinder will need upgrading in short order.

A Hario may work for espresso if you're talking about a small-diameter lever machine, they are usually more forgiving of grind size and allow you to extract some decent shots from even fairly "stale" coffee.

Solid advice. The danger is buying a espresso machine and finding out your Hario grinder cannot grind fine enough for it. I second the advice to get a lever machine as your first espresso machine. I think levers (especially those with open kettle boilers ) give the newbie better appreciation of temperature and pressure when pulling a shot, and they are infinitely more variable and interesting. If you don't mind second hand, the Caravel or La Peppina are good choices.

I will add that I have been using the Caravel / Porlex Mini combo for more than 6 months and I can pull nice 'Guinness' shots, but your experience may vary, depending on what you eventually buy

OctagonCoffee wrote:Could you explain more about this? I'm sorry I am not Native English speaker so I don't quite understand what you mean by that. I also saw Vario vs Rocky review on youtube by Seattle Coffee Gear, and seems like they are similar except that Rocky is cheaper. Could you also tell me why would you get Vario over Rocky??
Thank you very much

Silvia is an espresso machine not a grinder

I would skip on the Rocky, as mentioned, it won't be much of an upgrade for you other than getting a motor.

Think about looking on the used market if your budget is tight, you will get a better quality grinder and may only have to replace some burrs to have a like new machine depending on how heavy it was used.