Hi everyone,

I'm in reflexion to upgrade the Rocky grinder for something better. My very basic steup is the Rancilio Silvia + doserless Rocky. I drive this setup over 5 years now and guess it's time for me to upgrade to get better in the cup. Not that I am unfortunate with the setup (after doing all the addon for it, clic clac, stepless, new burrs, etc,) but I recognize to put lot of efforts to get appreciable drinks.

Anyways, the kitchen shall be re-designed next spring and I will be able to provide room for the upcoming equipments. First thing is to replace the weak link of the chain and I named the grinder. I have read many threads on the grinder forum during the last weeks, including the TGP, and decided I want something heavy and consistent. Since I feel fine with used commercial size grinder, I checked ads for Mazzer, Compak, Maccap, etc. I found 2 used grinders at low price, the Mazzer Super Jolly Timer (500$) and Compak K8 Platinum (400$). The other option I would consider is the Quamar M80E (800$) brand new in the box (CDN $).

I am aware the Quamar is doserless vs K8 and SJ dosers, but this is something I can live with. I used to grind single dose since I drink lattes on weekend only, 4-5 drinks each morning. I understand I 'll have to fit my skills with the final selection and I don't worry about that. I only drink latte, very rarely espresso, if this matter. Next thing to consider is the replacement of Silvia. I have nothing pre-selected at this time, but I am attracted to lever machines.

Which grinder should I choose? Many comments from users are welcome.

Thank you all!

Out of the three mentioned, the K8, SJ or M80E..

The Compak K8 has Mazzer Major size burrs, 83mm. The other two are 63mm and 64mm.

I dont currently own a Mazzer Major, but out of all the grinders I have owned, I spent the most time with the Major. Every machine ive owned, at one point or another, was paired with a major. I never got the chance to run it head to head with the K10, so my comparison is based on owning the major for a long time, then switching to the K10. During the switch, the machine stayed the same(its my current, the Duetto II). Really the difference is just a lateral move. My personal opinion, is the Major produces shots that favor bass note flavors and thicker body. If you like what we now call comfort food espresso, pulled in a thick, updosed ristretto fashion, the Major accelerates such shots.. The K10, IN MY OPINION, sacrifices a little of that uber thick body, for more noticeable separation of flavors in the shot. I dont think it favors high notes as much as it does allow you to detect them better due to said separation.(Because of these traits, in an ideal world, Id like to have both grinders, to pull the chocolate, bass heavy coffees on the K10, and the lighter roasted stuff on the Major. Get the chocolate bombs with still good flavor clarity, and get the light roasted fruits and florals, without them being too overbearing like they could be on the conical. This thinking is something backwards to the general idea)

Assuming the K8 will operate in a very similar fashion to the Major, that would be my choice hands down.

Also keep in mind, if you want the M80E for its electronic doserless capabilities.. for any of that to matter, you need to run the grinder with a load in the hopper. Perhaps counter intuitively, dosered grinders do better at single dosing, whereas doserless do better with a load in the hopper. If you're going to single dose, all the electronics go to waste, and you have to deal with a harder-to-sweep chute due to doserless design. Large Flat burrs grinders dont have a lot of retention at all, so you're only dealing with whatever the doserless design adds to the retention of the grinder, but I figured its still something to think about.

$500 is on the high side for a used Mazzer Major unless in excellent condition, way too much for a used Super Jolly considering now new around $700 (Seattle CoffeeGear currently has them listed for $675!)

SJ would be a decent upgrade from Rocky, Major even better.

Thank you for the comments. I also guess the K8 is a good deal at this price. I actuually don't know much about the overall condition of this grinder, I haven't seen it. But the pictures was showing very good condition. I may have to spend some $$ for new burrs in worst case. I don't see much on this grinder to be replaced or dammage. It is a major league for home use.

Mike, please take in account the prices I talk of is in Canadian Dolard, not U$. Online selling price in Canada for the Super Joly is 900$, K8 is 1090$ and Major may cost more than 1500$. Importing SJ from Seatle CoofeeGear at 675$ + exchange rate means 800$ CDN (assuming they accept to ship in Canada which I'm not sure). I agrre with your comment and will try to deal for less if decide to go with this one.

Any more comments?

I haven't used the K8, but that seems like a good price at $400 CAD. I did like my Super Jolly, but ultimately ended upgrading it. Eventually the daily grind adjustment and dialing in a new blend got a bit annoying to me. But you'll have this on any grinder unless you go up to a conical.

I think going used will get you a great grinder for a great deal, so either way you are doing well there.

Hi all,

Just a quick follow up on this thread to complete the story. While discussion with the K8 seller, he finnaly get someone that picked up the grinder and I sadly lost this one.

Some days later, a doser Super Joly showed up on Kijiji and I get it for 475$ CDN including one tall, one short hopper + one brand new spare burr set. I guess this is a good deal since it was a home used 2011 grinder. I get it on Jan 2 and actually dialing it. After a in depth cleaning, I can say that it is in very good shape and working wonderfully. The only missing part is the finger guard that previous owner lost.

I needed 3 shots to get an acceptactable 31sec, 50% brew ratio. I immediately see the difference in grind compare to Rocky. Very fluffy, almost no clumps. It taste more balance too, but I lost some chocolate flavor, which I appreciated. However, the actual extraction is not quite good. I'm used to have a even flow coming out the naked portafilter.

Actually, the extraction is very uneven. I must work hard to diagnoze this issue. I guess this is a distribution problem. I weigth each dose and drop it directly in the grinder spout (no hopper), then put a glass over it to cover the beans and keep some pressure. I clean the chute to get as much grind as possible, then dose in the portafilter, level the grind and tamp. Even if the tamp is leveled, the extraction cone is not cetered and I observe many dead spots. I use a VST 18g filter basket with 15g dose.

I'm going to search here for solution, but any tips are welcome.

lgxiii wrote:I use a VST 18g filter basket with 15g dose.

VST baskets are cranky about dosing, and so are Silivas. Dose heavier: 18g, plus/minus 1g; and grind coarser to keep a good flow rate. If you're in love with dosing at 15g, get a different basket.

Important Takeway
"Espresso porn" is not an end in itself, a naked portafilter is only a diagnostic tool. As long as your shots taste good, don't obsess over what they look like coming out of the bottom of the basket.

Rich

russel wrote:I loved my K6 Silenzio, hands down one of my all time favorite grinders

Deny,

FYI, the (Compak) K6 Silenzio and Super Jolly are equivalent in the cup.



Rich

JmanEspresso wrote:My ... opinion is the Major produces shots that favor bass note flavors and thicker body.... The K10, IN MY OPINION, sacrifices a little of that uber thick body, for more noticeable separation of flavors in the shot.

Maybe it's because I don't pull espresso from beans roasted lighter than mid C, or maybe it's the difference between the K10 and the two big conics with which I'm most familiar, the Ceado E92 and Mazzer Robur, but I don't see any loss of mouthfeel between those two and the big flats. Even though I believe grinders tend to hunt in packs defined by burr size and geometry, that makes me chary about over generalizing.

Also, I'm not sure that I'd say that the big flats (with two or three notable exceptions), "favor bass notes and flavors" so much as they mute fruits and florals. That is, the big conics generally make a more complete and accurate presentation of what's there than big flats (and hybrids, for that matter). In my opinion it's as much spectrum as separation, and vice versa.

The exceptions to the rule are the Anfim Super Caimano Barista, Mahlkonig EK43, and Nuova Simonelli Nino (I've never tried coffee from a Nino, let alone used one, so am including it for its reputation -- but I know Russel is very familiar with all three grinders). FWIW, I don't think the EK43 is any great shakes for mouthfeel relative to the E92 and Robur; clarity in buckets, though.

Rich