EspressoForge wrote:For your grinder, I would look into a Pharos if you're interested in trying out a conical for a low-cost. I had one, and eventually upgraded to a HG-One. I'm very happy with the HG-One and would recommend it if you're interested in grinding by hand. The flywheel makes it easier to use than the Pharos. The only downside to me was the cost, but I think it's well worth it.

It is indeed a manual type, so it's a perfect fit on the counter without obstructing our cabinets or looking cramped (my Oscar was a tight fit and looked much mor out of place). With the Cremina and hand grinder, the counter is quite uncluttered and pleasant looking, I must say. The Oscar and Vario wouldn't even properly fit on the counter without touching one another!

Not to discredit it as a quality grinder, but the Pharos wouldn't be a good fit for me. I was very attracted to it at first, but it's bulky footprint and appearance mean it would need storage somewhere other than my coffee counter. It doesn't even come close to passing the visual approval of the lady of the house, while the Lido 2, Rosco (and Rosco Mini) and HG1 are all passable aesthetically. I tried out the HG1 at Eastsideloco's home and while I've always adored it, there's no way it'd fit under my cabinets. I need to see if he can bring it by here some time to determine if I could find a place it would fit in without looking awkward, but our kitchen is small and the cabinets are hung lower than standard. I'd gladly throw down the asking price of it, if it meant I quit researching and contemplating grinders the peace of mind and quality in cup would be worth it!

Yeah, I hear you, if your kitchen is small then you have to be careful on what you choose. The Pharos is large for a manual grinder, but the benefit would be that you wouldn't need to store it on the counter and could save some space there. Also if it's not on the counter all the time, maybe the look isn't so critical with your wife? Either way, if you don't think you'd like using it, I would recommend to pass. But the quality of the shot it makes is hard to dispute.

If you can go with a HG One, I would do it based on my experience. The footprint isn't large at all, this diagram may help you out:
http://hg-one.com/the-hg-one-grinder/hg ... imensions/

But to really be able to use it and not hit your knuckles, I would count the maximum height as around 53cm or nearly 21", though I'm sure you could pull it out from under a cabinet towards the edge of the counter before using it each time easily to get more clearance.

As an alternative, if your kitchen or breakfast area has space for a small table/cart, you may think about adding that. It would give you a lot more room without having cabinets above you, and could free up some possibly much needed counter space in your kitchen.

Well, square footage is the next thing lacking after counter space. The house is just under 700 sq ft, and our oddly wide open kitchen is left with just enough space to squeeze in the smallest dinette table we could find. No place for any carts/tables/etc Even worse, we've got lower-than-average cabinets, so I only have 16" of clearance to work with and that makes the HG1 a really tricky thing to imagine fitting onto our counters. If we had a normal cabinet height, I'd have been all over it already!

Pharos with voodoodaddy mods or HG-One stored in your cabinet and be done with it. Both are large because they need to be. I keep my vPharos in a cabinet. With that level of grinder you'll have what you need for excellent shots.

Otherwise if it must sit out I had a Le'Lit PL53 grinder for a long time. I'm offering that as another alternative. It looks good and is small enough for your counter. It has a worm adjustment screw for fine tuning. You won't get the clarity of the above but you will get a good, consistent grind. It is loud, though.

drgary wrote:Otherwise if it must sit out I had a Le'Lit PL53 grinder for a long time. I'm offering that as another alternative. It looks good and is small enough for your counter. It has a worm adjustment screw for fine tuning. You won't get the clarity of the above but you will get a good, consistent grind.

Good call. The same stepless Tre Spade grinder is available under a bunch of brand names, including Ascaso I-1, I-2; Iberital Challenge; La Pavoni Kube; Le Lit PL053; Mini III and Pasquini Lux -- collectively referred to as Tre Spades. I mention this because there may be a color or material the OP's wife particularly likes.

It is loud, though.

WHAT? WHAT DID YOU SAY?
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Another smaller grinder with considering is the Varo/Forte. Very small form factor, better in the cup than a Tre Spade, very convenient, relatively neat and quiet, etc., etc. If money's not that big of an issue, the Forte's build quality makes it worth the extra dough.

Given everything that's been said in this thread, I think the Forte is almost a no brainer.

Rich

boar_d_laze wrote:WHAT? WHAT DID YOU SAY?
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Another smaller grinder with considering is the Varo/Forte. Very small form factor, better in the cup than a Tre Spade, very convenient, relatively neat and quiet, etc., etc. If money's not that big of an issue, the Forte's build quality makes it worth the extra dough.

Given everything that's been said in this thread, I think the Forte is almost a no brainer.

Rich

Yeah it's just that he sold off his Vario for something else. Although the Forte does look like a much nicer Vario, and if I had it, I probably never would have sold it like I did my Vario. Still, would depend on the reason he sold off, and what he's looking for. Since he seemed to want the Rosco grinder, I'm assuming that he probably would be liking a hand-powered grinder.

For hand-grinders, I think you could either look into a vintage wooden-box one from OE, or you could go with the Pharos, or HG-One. I think the Rosco would grind as slow as the vintage grinders, but be a lot more expensive. Of course, it's really small and does look pretty nice, which seems like that could be the main reason OP is looking into it.

I don't think Orphan Espresso has vintage hand grinders anymore. They sold off most of them last year when clearing out old inventory for their new grinder business. I don't see any listed on the site other than for display of old ones they restored. When getting a vintage hand grinder you don't know whether it will work for your espresso machine without trying it or having a seller you can rely on who has tried it. If you try to buy one through an online auction you may go through several before you find one that will work.

Very true, I wasn't aware that OE no longer offers them. If interested in that route, I'm sure a call to Doug or Barb would give the final answer. I have one from them that works well and I think looks nice...but I would say that the Pharos is a much better grind. In thinking about it, the vintage grinders seem to fit better with smaller baskets like the Peppina or Caravel, so with a Cremina I would probably look elsewhere.

When you look for a phone number to call Doug and Barb you get a message that says email them. The response to an email can be slow if they respond at all as they continue ramping up their hand grinder business while getting them manufactured in Taiwan. I would suggest going another route.