Hello, I just found this forum. I have been looking at videos and reading articles about making cappuccino since December of last year. I wanted to buy an espresso machine for my wife for Christmas last year so I bought the first one I found, naturally. It was a Delonghi brand, forget the model, it was a steam machine. We used it once and remembered it worked just as poorly as the one we bought 20 years prior, also a steam machine. I returned it the same day. I bought a Capresso ec100 in its place. I also bought a Mr. Coffee burr grinder, and eventually a milk frother. What I am questioning now is if this machine is even making real espresso. I have watched 100's of video by now and when I see the coffee coming out, it takes afew seconds to start out of the brew head, and then it takes the usual time, 20,25 seconds to finish brewing. I finally timed my machine and it starts coming out in 2 seconds, and takes only 15 seconds to brew a double shot. It does produce crema but not a huge thick amount. Some of you might tell me if it tastes good then that's all you need to know, but I don't really know if it tastes like it's supposed to. I mean how can it if it brews so quickly? I called Capresso's customer service to ask about the brew time but the guy didn't know anything about brew time. I watched videos of crew review and whole latte love using my machine to pull a shot. In both cases the coffee came out right away and came out thin, not thick, and came out fast, just like my machine. So if it's supposed to take 20,25 seconds, come out looking thick and dark, not thin and light brown, what's up with this machine? This reminds me of thinking the cubic zarconian "sp" I have is a beautiful diamond until I found out it's a fake. One last thing. I have experimented with various grind sizes, more and less coffee in the sieve, firmer and softer tamping. It makes no difference in the appearance or time.
Thanks very much for reading this long rant.

THE GRINDER: while it may suffice for other methods of brewing, for espresso, not so much. The grinder sells for about $35 shipped which is about the same as many replacement burr sets for better grinders which were designed for espresso. This is the weak link in this plastic-chain of equipment.

THE MACHINE: The Capresso ec100 sells for $120 shipped. It is a thermoblock heating system which, on the best of days, is just adequate, and that is about all that can be said.

MILK FROTHER? You have a steam wand and so, theoretically, the frother would not have been necessary.

COFFEE: You post concentrates on the equipment but says nothing about the coffee you are using? Where do you get it? How is it packaged? How old is it, and how do you know? In the cup, espresso is water and coffee. If you start with low quality coffee you are doomed regardless as to what equipment you are using.

Here are my universal questions that I have asked countless times:
What is your priority? Is it the best coffee possible for the investment, or does it have to be espresso? From the answers to the above questions we can offer more valuable advice.

Hi Randy, thanks for the reply. The grinder: when I bought the Capresso, I remembered I had a blade grinder stashed away in the pantry so I got it out and used it a couple times and realized it wasn't going to work. I saw online that burr grinders were necessary so I bought the Mr. Coffee because I figured it would work and it got more good reviews than bad, lol!

The machine: all I knew was it needed to be better than the delonghi one that couldn't hold enough water to steam milk after the shot. I saw that the capresso had a water tank and a better looking wand and it costs 3x's as much so I figured the results would be 3X's better. I couldn't get the microfoam or great foam so I bought the frother and I love that machine.

Coffee: I bought the first pound at Starbucks, whole bean, dark espresso roast. I have no idea how old it is. It comes in a bag. You've seen the stuff. Then after that I bought a lb. from a local coffee shop called Indian River Coffee. Again I bought whole bean arabica espresso. I have gone back and forth with these two kinds, maybe3 lbs of each so far.

Randy G. wrote:What is your priority? Is it the best coffee possible for the investment, or does it have to be espresso?

Well I would like to get the best results with what I have for now and hopefully that results in being espresso. I am not opposed to getting a better machine down the road. I was looking at the Breville Barista express and the gaggia classic and read both great and poor reviews. But I am not going to upgrade just yet.
So based on my answers, what do you say?
thanks again,
Jay

Number one - Get some better coffee. Find a local roaster (not just a coffee shop) or order some from a known, respected source (search the archives here for preferred sources). Saying "whole bean arabica" is about the same as going to a butcher and saying "I'll take some of the red meat." It narrows it down, but not by much. Road kill felis domestica is red meat. If the bad doesn't say "ROASTED ON..." don't buy it. The label which states "best if used by" means "This is stale coffee. Enjoy."

The low-end Breville machines are generally considered a waste of money here, and the jury is still out on their best machine which is new and already has shown problems upon entering the market. The Gaggia is a better choice for affordable home machines, but that grinder you have is problematic. When it comes to espresso, the grinder is so very important that it is difficult to overstate the matter. Basically- if you cannot grind fine enough to choke the espresso machine (no flow for fifteen seconds or so) then the grinder is not up to the task, or there s a problem with the espresso machine. Some espresso machines that are designed to use pods as well as ground coffee have their brew pressure set way to high as well.. that could also be a contributing factor

I would also point you to my website (URL in the sig below as there is a lot of good guidance there, particularly in the blog which documents my journey from about where you are now to where I am today) and particularly my article: EASY GUIDE TO BETTER ESPRESSO AT HOME article on improving espresso at home.

The quality of home espresso is quite dependent on how much you have to spend. But please, next time, before spending money on more equipment, ask here...

Randy,
I read your blog and most of the other stuff you provided a link to. Very interesting and informative to say the least. I learned a lot. Thanks.

Ok, I visited a local dealer who sells commercial coffee equipment, espresso machines and everything under the sun. He also has machines for home use for sale. I didn't go into any of that with him because I was looking to buy a tamper to replace the plastic one that came with my Capresso. Long story short, he didn't carry my size but could order one. I told him how you said the coffee I was buying "might" be one of my problems and that my grinder was "definitely" one of my problems. He informed me that he is the one who supplies Indian River Coffee with their beans. That is one of the places I told you I buy from. I told him I recognize I only have an entry level home use espresso machine but wanted to maximize my performance with it while I have it. I told him that within 3 seconds the coffee starts to brew and that the entire pull only takes 15 seconds. He immediately told me my grind was too course and proceeded to grind up some espresso, put it in a cup and showed me what it should look like. I told him what I use, Mr. Coffee Conical burr grinder and I have it set for the finest grind for espresso. He gave me some ground up espresso to take home and try for myself. I went home, poured his coffee into my porta filter and anticipated something exactly the same or something entirely different. What I got was entirely different. It took about 10 seconds to begin pouring, and it took 25 seconds to complete the pull. The crema was much more intense and the coffee was somewhat thicker, not a great deal thicker. It tasted very good! So, what you said about the grinder was quite accurate. I really didn't think it was possible that it could be doing that poorly of a job grinding the beans. So now I have to make a decision. One choice is to buy my beans already ground, but wouldn't it become stale too soon? I could buy half the amount each time I suppose so it doesn't sit around. What is the verdict on this? I read all over you're not supposed to grind until right before brewing so why do people buy it already ground up? The other choice is to buy a different grinder, and right now that's not practical. I look forward to hearing back from you.

Good experiment! It's really tough to understand the difference between a good, an OK and a bad grinder without tasting the impact they have on the coffee - the grinds will pretty much always look the same.

Unfortunately once coffee is ground it starts going stale right away, and it might work alright for espresso for a couple hours, and maybe even a day later it will be so-so, but much after that and it's going to be too stale. If you're really interested in making espresso on a budget I'd look in to hand grinders, they can be had a lot cheaper than even the cheapest acceptable motorized grinder, and the right ones will definitely work for espresso.

Hi Tristan,
which grinder do you own? It might be in your sig. but I can't tell because I don't recognize any of that equipment. If you don't mind, what one do you have, how much was it, do you have a link?
thanks,

Randy said:

that grinder you have is problematic

I don't know if you are around to read my above post but I agree with you about my grinder. I was really thrilled with it when I got it because I thought a burr grinder is a burr grinder is a burr grinder. I bought some more pre-ground espresso today to convince me 100% that my espresso maker will indeed react better with a more fine grind, and it did. I experimented with the only variable left now that the coffee is grinded correctly and that variable is tamping pressure. My first shot didn't choke the machine and it brewed just as fast as what I grinded myself. I tossed that out and tried again, this time tamping to what I imagined to be 30lbs. This time it choked the machine to where it took forever to start and took forever to brew. I tossed out that shot as well. Tried a third time with less pressure tamping and viola, took about 7 seconds to start and about 25 seconds to complete. I am on my way out the door to return my grinder to the store where I purchased it. They were very cool on the phone and will refund my money. Thanks target! So until I read up on grinders, I will be without one, but at least I know where to start upgrading.

Here's the three grinders I've used at home:

Gaggia MDF - This might be the cheapest motorized grinder you can buy new. It's a giant step up from most cheap "burr" grinders because it has actual sharp burrs. Most grinders that cost less than this new are just smashing the beans between cheap metal grindstones, and really won't work for espresso. But, while it's cheaper I don't think it's a good value compared to what's on the market now for the same price, or a little bit more (it's fuzzy, hard to adjust, and feels cheap overall).

Le'Lit PL53 - This is a little more expensive, but is a giant leap up in quality, and I think it's a great buy for the money. I used this grinder for a long time and was very happy with it. Good build quality (at this price), good burrs (they're also used in a couple other similar grinders like the Nemox Lux). It's really only good for espresso, but at this price, that's ok. There are a few other grinders now at this price that are probably just as good though, but I haven't tried them out.

Compak K10 This was a noticeable step in grind quality, construction and usability. It's really a comercial grinder that can be made to work at home without too much fuss. At this price point there are actually a ton of grinders to choose from (including a number that are cheaper, but might be just as good) and the choice really comes down to personal preference and how it's going to get used at home. There's also a re-branded version of this grinder called the Weg Max 6.8 that I've seen selling for pretty cheap (but it might've been an intro special).

I've also used a few other grinders, but most not so much as to have much of an opinion on them. The Baratza Vario is very easy to use, great design for the home, and at the price appears to grind as well as grinders costing much more. Hand grinders also get a lot of good reviews on here, I could recommend any one model, but I'm sure there are lots of people who can.