ECM Giotto boiler won't refill

#1: Post by **ras8000** » January 29th, 2011, 9:15 am

Hey

I just bought an old ECM Giotto and some how it won't refill the boiler. The pump kicks in as it should but the water just passes through to the return hose and back into the water tank again. I suspect the solenoid valve could be the fault, but some water do pass through this, just very little and not with enough pressure to reach the boiler. I have seen some diagrams of a ECM Giotto which show a expansion valve, mine does not have that. I have included a picture. I hope someone out there can help me out with this one.

#2: Post by HB » January 29th, 2011, 9:21 am

ras8000 wrote:I suspect the solenoid valve could be the fault, but some water do pass through this, just very little and not with enough pressure to reach the boiler.

You're probably right, assuming the solenoid is energized, it is probably stuck due to scale buildup. Cleaning it may be all that's required. While not directly related to your question, see Checking an E61 Espresso Machine for Scale for an easy way to assess how much scale is likely present in the boiler.

http://users.rcn.com/erics/ · #3: Post by **erics** » January 29th, 2011, 10:08 am

I have seen some diagrams of a ECM Giotto which show a expansion valve, mine does not have that.

Because you were kind enough to include a pic, I am kind enough to point out your expansion valve (Item 1). FYI, Item 2 is a check valve.

a. Temporarily disconnect one of the heating element leads and keep it this way for a while.
b. Syphon a cup of water out of the boiler after removing the vacuum breaker valve - keep the valve removed.
c. Turn the machine on and see if you can feel the boiler fill solenoid activating - yes or no?
d. Measure the level of water in the boiler with a small wooden dowel where the vacuum breaker valve was screwed in - should be AROUND 2/3 full.

January 29th, 2011, 10:32 am

Hey

Thnx for the quick responses. Thought it just were a t-valve and not an OPV/expansion valve, it isn't adjustable right? The first thing I did was to disconnect the wires for the heating element!

Is the vacuum breaker the big thingy on the top of the machine?

http://users.rcn.com/erics/ · #5: Post by **erics** » January 29th, 2011, 10:42 am

That "big thingy" is the boiler's safety valve. I do not readily see a vacuum relief valve - maybe more and clearer pics?

Remove the steam pipe to the right (in your pic) of the safety valve and this will allow level measurements.

January 29th, 2011, 11:08 am

After pulling the solenoid valve on and off it suddenly kicked in and opened up. Its now filling the boiler, finally. I dont see the vacuum relief valve anywhere, is it possible that the machine doesn't have it?

#7: Post by HB » January 29th, 2011, 11:43 am

I don't see one in your photo. Here's a Giotto that I evaluated years ago and it definitely has a vacuum breaker:

January 29th, 2011, 12:14 pm

I see. Mine doesn't have a vacuum valve, well not in that location anyway. Is there anything operation that is required when not having a vacuum breaker valve?

#9: Post by HB » January 29th, 2011, 12:18 pm

It means you should open the steam valve during warmup so saturated steam can displace the air in the boiler. See Can someone please explain false pressure? for why this is necessary.

January 29th, 2011, 12:20 pm

Will do. Thnx guys for all your help. Next step will be installing a vacuum breaker.