I see many posters asking questions, and being referred to Google or the search function. My feeling, FWIW, is that basically all questions could be answered this way, but that would not help anyone else that may have a similar question, or is just curious. True, some have been answered many times over the months or years, but that doesn't mean there aren't new opinions. I think we should answer the questions, maybe link to other threads.

The fact that a lot of posters fail to use the search function has been mentioned before but I would like to make a few points. Sometimes the keyword function here on HB is not necessarily user friendly, and the salient threads have not been named to facilitate archival usage. There is sometimes something new to say on a subject as well. All are good reasons to keep posting.

What I hope is that there will not be endless iteration of the same questions by those who are too rushed or too search-impaired to review the past. Still, I admit I have posted comments myself without a full and comprehensive knowledge; that is part of the reason we ask questions.

Perhaps the enrichment of and codification of the How To Section can help improve the situation?

sweaner wrote:I think we should answer the questions, maybe link to other threads.

This is covered in the Guidelines for productive online discussion:

Help raise the discussion level. Use the how tos, resources, FAQs, and search. "Newbie" questions are welcome, but they are more likely to receive thoughtful replies if some initial research is done beforehand.

The key point is some initial research. I don't mind at all those who "resurrect" old topics with new angles. That's why I will sometimes merge new threads asking a previously treated topic into the old thread. Other times I intentionally don't merge threads but instead link, e.g., if the topic isn't clearly related, the old thread is really really old, or the old thread was difficult to find due to an odd title.

drdna wrote:Perhaps the enrichment of and codification of the How To Section can help improve the situation?

That's the purpose the FAQs and Favorites are supposed to serve, but it's an imperfect model. The content is derived from existing threads and they don't always develop in an orderly fashion. At one time I thought of incorporating a wiki into the site and "promoting" forum content into it. But that would be a lot of work, so I live with doing lots of searches, updating the FAQ, and pointing others to existing topics where possible.

HB wrote:This is covered in the Guidelines for productive online discussion.

Oh, man, I should have done a search on this topic before I posted. Sorry!

Possibly, some instances originate from what users are accustomed to in other forums. I have been in several other forums that are pretty active where if I had asked a similar question as I did earlier today, there would have been several posters replying, and it would have generated some discussion of the finer points. Which is partly something I was trying to generate, albeit poorly.

Instead, I got two posts

Here's a tip: Try this cool Internet search tool called "google"...... HB's search yielded good results too...

Youu might wish to use the search function here on H-B, veery informative!
-Richard

Basically saying to search - and essentially killed the thread.

If there are bandwith and storage concerns, I can understand the need to keep noise and chatter down. Of course, if no one wishes to respond - the post ages and rolls on down.

If users/administrators have high post counts, and are tired of repeatedly answering the same questions over and over that is understandable. However, if they ignore the thread - the poster will figure out reasonably soon that he isn't getting a response.

But posting "do a search" kills the thread and essentially prevents further lines of discussion. Which in fact may be something that is wanted if bandwidth/storage are limited.

As I am still inexperienced, I try to answer some of the simpler questions that have been asked before. This leaves more experienced the time to answer the more challenging questions. I did like this answer on a thread at CG though:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=espresso+cup+imprint

imnewuser wrote:Instead, I got two posts... Basically saying to search - and essentially killed the thread.

You refer to this thread: Size tamper for an Olympia Cremina. I ribbed you by suggesting Google because the EXACT words of your thread title led to your answer. As I believe long-time members will confirm, my barbed reply was an exception, as I frequently look up previous threads without complaint and add a few finer points the original poster may find helpful.

Clearly my reply grated on your nerves; for that I apologize and I promise to be more tactful next time. Indeed, your search efforts turned up a very good response that I didn't find:


From 49mm Baskets for Olympias

imnewuser wrote:If there are bandwith and storage concerns, I can understand the need to keep noise and chatter down. Of course, if no one wishes to respond - the post ages and rolls on down.

Actually the admonishment to do some initial research prior to posting has nothing to do with worries of excessive bandwidth or storage, it's driving away top contributors because they tire of seeing the same questions posted again and again and again.

I apologize and I promise to be more tactful next time.

No apology needed, but accepted anyhow.

Did I get annoyed? Yep. But if I get annoyed less than a dozen times in a day, I'm having a great day.

it's driving away top contributors because they tire of seeing the same questions posted again and again and again.

I'm pretty new here, but not not new to usenet or forums. My guess is that top contributors move on primarily for other reasons, one of which may be they are giving a lot more than they are receiving. Happens in all the forums. People get forum/internet addicted burn out and move on.

They can easily simply not reply to a question. Let others take up that slack. Or let it sit there without a response.

As to top contributors moving on, it's going to happen regardless. Forums change, and evolve. But the long term survival of the forum depends on those new people asking those annoying questions over and over, and their hanging around to replace those lost from attrition.

Me, I plan to be around a while - but wouldn't surprise me at all if after several years I moved on. Ummm, well that's pretty much what has happened, for one reason or another. It's the nature of the beast.

Hi guys,

I think this forum is exceptional due to the low amount of 'use the search option' posts. Seriously Dan does a great job in posting links to other threads and usually other users chip in and post replies even if the topic question has been asked 123908378190238012 times before. I'm pretty sure Dan has other things to do in life other than this forum (as we all do), but still he keeps on replying to almost any thread without shouting 'search/google'.

Regards,
dsc.

HB wrote:Actually the admonishment to do some initial research prior to posting has nothing to do with worries of excessive bandwidth or storage, it's driving away top contributors because they tire of seeing the same questions posted again and again and again.

Not that I'm claiming to be a "top contributor" but anyone who spends enough time here (or on any forum) will soon tire of the same discussions being had over and over again. On this site especially because H-B has such a rich Resources and FAQS section. Its really the best online espresso encyclopedia out there many a newbie can learn all the basics and answer many questions there without ever having to post (I certainly did).

Its not a slight against newbies, in fact they always seem welcomed and accepted here, but inevitably someone comes along that just doesn't want to do any work and wants all the information handed to them, these folks (the very slim near-zero percentage of the community) are the least welcomed. On the other hand I can easily recall the excitement of getting the first machine, pulling the first acceptable shot or the frustration of not getting anything drinkable, in those cases hitting the forums is very tempting.

When I was new searching did me a lot of good because I found content even before I could come up with the questions. All without having to make a post. The advice to search either via Google or the Resources/FAQS section is good advice and should be utilized before making a post, its beneficial to the questioner and beneficial to the forums by keeping repetitive topics to a minimum.