I was wondering if there will ever be a review of this product. I read somewhere that because it had to be plumbed in and was rather large, there was no planned review, but I think this should be reconsidered. There are many people that would not mind plumbing in their machines, and even if they couldn't, they could always hook it up to a flojet. Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? I think this is a serious contender (quality-wise) with the LM GS3 and the like.

Buy one and review it.

Heck, buy the 1, 2 and 3 group versions along with Compact and review them all.

We await with baited breath...

The word from NS itself is that the Appia does not have the chops of the Aurelia. That makes it one of a zillion lines of full sized, one to three group, commercial espresso machines.

where did you read this? i know the brew group is similar, but not the same, and i know that it's not AS good. But where did you hear this directly from NS?

Does it matter?

In the course of a month you've gone from super automatics to Silvia to stainless e61 boxes to Appia as a GS3 substitute, not mention Mini class grinders.

Other than the super automatics, all are capable of making very good espresso in the hands those of willing to take the time to learn.

You could drop $25,000 into a machine and grinder setup and still pull the most awful dreck.
Happens hundreds of thousands of times a day in cafés all across the world.

If you're looking for a magic bullet, none exist.

Get a Nespresso

relax...i haven't bought anything yet. i went to a local store that has been dealing with nuova simonelli for years, as well as other machines, and was told that this machine is one that would require much less servicing than another, smaller-boiler semiautomatic...point is though, im here, trying to ensure what i'm hearing is correct...

i mean, at least im not taking everything for granted and buying whatever is recommended to me. i don't care much what salesmen tell me, but i like to seek the validity in their comments, if any...and plus, it's not much more $$ than a higher end HX/DB (at least for the price he's selling it at - he's also including a 300$ water softener and home installation for free...so that's what drew me to it). he also mentions that this brewgroup is better than the e61, and offers better pre-infusion. i am trying to determine if this is true also...

all in due time. i realized that this purchase will not be easy, and so may be holding off for a few weeks.

You're asking for a review because you are thinking of buying an Appia, a full size, economy class, single group machine, new, no deals, for home use? For full commercial machine, there are many compact single groupers, starting with Wegas and Astras at the low end, and going up to a GS3 at the high end, that will almost certainly work better for almost any domestic setting.

What exactly, in terms of features, do you think you'll be getting out of an Appia?

What I believe I would be getting - again, BELIEVE...I can't stress this enough, i am still learning and trying to figure out what is true or not.

1- a rotary pump completely plumbed machine that i do not need to worry about
2- a sirai pressurestat (obviously an upgrade to others, but it's included already)
3- a large boiler which would probably significantly reduce service costs due to heating element failures and scale buildup
4- a brass group that is a derivative (extremely close - but not quite) of the aurelia, and I have heard, better and more forgiving than the e61
5- a free 300$ water softener that i would probably (actually - surely) need to get with any other machine
6- free in-home installation and in-home servicing
7- dealing locally and not online, with a company that has been dealing with nuova simonelli for over a decade
8- etc...

again, i don't know how much weight to put on each of these aspects. i was told that it is really not recommended to descale a HX or DB machines, and that it is not safe for the heating element, and if the person does no do it correctly, it could be harmful. also, for removal of scale, it is recommended to bring it in, where they strip it apart and manually rermove all the scale. I heard this from the store owner (selling the appia). Obviously, he would like to promote work in his store, but he is not the only one to tell me this though...that's why I'm leaning towards believing him. Thus, a bigger boiler would take much longer to build up scale, and given its thermal mass, it would require less work from the heating element as it would hold its temperature more than a 1.6-2L boiler...that would cut down on heating element failures and would also allow me to have it on longer.

so from this point of view, if I were to buy a brutus III-R for example:
- 2200
- 300 for water softener (or 100 for the cartridge type...but that needs to be replaced)
- not dealing locally
- 2 boilers...not very big, and would probably require more servicing
- crappy pressurestat (C.E.M.E.) that makes sense in a machine like that with a small boiler (smaller dead band), but that will crap out in a few months
- build quality that is not like some others - this is purely from what I have heard
- so after 3 years, this may cost me 3500$ in total including servicing

appia 1gp
- 3400
- free in home installation
- sirai pressurestat
- lg boiler
- amazing build quality (from what i read - I would probably insulate the boiler though)
- supposedly a better group than an e61
- ugly as crap
- so after 3 years, this may end up costing me the original purchase price...as less servicing would be required.

I would like to know though how a gs3 would be better (other than looks and pour-over ability) though...i hear such good things, but i am unsure why?

I still think there should be a review as I am interested in the quality of the group compared to E61.

now, please, do not take any of this as some gullible fool trying to sell you something, or telling you he knows it all. that's exactly the point - I don't, and am asking you, or anyone, if you can help clarify these points...maybe lead me to some articles/posts that may come to mind explaining some of these aspects. i want to try and understand everything before i purchase or even consider any product. i am not only looking for something that is functional, but something that would require minimal servicing and hence, would cost less in the long run. to me, a greater initial investment is worth it if it will end up being economical in the long run. i know i seem like i am rambling, and i am, but i'm just trying to analyze all aspects.

what's your input?

GewoW wrote:what's your input?

Listing features and benefits when you don't know what is important to you is no way to buy anything; on top of that, your list has some howlers:

The service costs of an espresso machine rise with its initial cost, pretty much regardless of reliability (non-annoyance is proportional to reliability) -- certain parts need to be changed regularly, and they just cost more on big machines. Descaling is trivial, changing pressure stats is trivial, changing heaters is trivial. Doing it for larger machines is more expensive than smaller machines. But well laid out large machines are much more pleasurable to work on, if you do you own repairs

However, if you don't want to buy parts on-line and get inside the machine to do your own service and repairs, you should go with whatever can be expeditiously serviced locally. In that case, you don't care how reliable the machine is, only how reliable the service organization.

As to the difference between the Aurelia and the Appia: I can walk up to an Aurelia and pull good shots from the get go. The Appia has the usual HX machine learning curve, and it would take me about six weeks to learn how to use correctly. Since you are inexperienced, potentially, it will not make all that much difference, since learning how to make shots and how to use the machine will be conflated, and learning to make shots takes longer.

However, since nobody on the board has an Appia, you'll need to learn for yourself how to set it up for temperature control, i.e. how to flush it, etc. Given the thermosyphon and heavyish group, but lack of the Aurelia's ultra-heavy group, hi-tech HX, and jetting, the machine will have a long thermal memory rather than absolute stability -- that means a complicated flushing routine. Chances are any of the rotary HX/E61 machines will be easier to learn, since you can get Eric's group thermometer and ask on the boards about the correct flushing routines.

If you go the Appia route, you should get a Scace, so you can figure out the temperature management of the machine quickly.