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Vibiemme DoubleDomo Super [Double Boiler] - Design Updates - Page 8

Postby bob47 on Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:10 am

Louis and Randy - Thanks for your advice.

What I was attempting to ascertain in my first question was whether the 30-45 minutes of daily preheating to pull 5-8 espressos/cappuccinos made sense from an energy and machine wear and tear perspective. Put another way, is the VBE DD too much machine for 5-8 cups/day?

As for plumbing in versus a reservoir, I intend to follow both of your pieces of advice and plumb. In fact, I downloaded Randy's 2-part article several weeks ago and found it informative. In my case, since I am replacing all the kitchen plumbing as part of my on-going renovation anyway, I intend to have the plumber do the installation. I will use your design as my reference for where to put shut-off valves etc.
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Postby Randy G. on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:06 pm

bob47 wrote:'Put another way, is the VBE DD too much machine for 5-8 cups/day?

Geeze, I hope not. My daily use is normally 2 doubles in the AM! :lol:

If you are just doing straight shots you can turn the power switch to Position I and the steam boiler is then off. Even then, turning the Power switch back to Position II about fifteen minutes before you want a milk-based drink should work as well, and still leave a pre-heated group and brew boiler.
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Postby bob47 on Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:57 am

Best Water Softener Option for a plumbed-in VBM DDV3:

I'm close to ordering a VBM DDV3, but I want to get the plumbing set as the plumbers finish my remodeled kitchen and before the machine arrives. I've read a great deal on water softening options in this forum and it would appear the current two front-runners are a cation salt replacement system (I'm leaning toward 1st Line's Inoxdep Rechargeable Water Softener) and Everpure's Claris system. Does anyone have any current findings or opinions on which system is best that have not already been expressed in these pages?

I will be away on business for several more weeks and would like to order the system so that it is readly for installation when I return home. Since I am away, I'm unable to test my water to determine its pre-conditioned state. In general, however, the city-supplied water is relatively soft.

Thanks for your help.
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Postby Randy G. on Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:14 am

As I understand it (and take that for just what it says and no more): The Claris uses both types of softening beads. The standard softener system like the 1st-Line uses the "low acid" type that removes the carbonate hardness. The high acid type removes general (alkaline) hardness. The Claris will cost more over time because of the more expensive cartridges that are proprietary but will probably supply a better tasting espresso. With the 1st-Line softener remember to add a carbon post filter to improve taste but also to act as a filter to keep particles from the softener from entering the machine.

Without data on the water it would be difficult to say, but if the water you have really is soft, I would recommend the Claris. My water is so hard that I would have to buy the Claris cartridges by the dozen.
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Postby 1st-line on Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:28 am

bob47 wrote:Best Water Softener Option for a plumbed-in VBM DDV3:

I'm close to ordering a VBM DDV3,...

I will be away on business for several more weeks and would like to order the system so that it is readly for installation when I return home. Since I am away, I'm unable to test my water to determine its pre-conditioned state. In general, however, the city-supplied water is relatively soft.

Thanks for your help.


Bob,

We thank you for the inquiry. We suggest that you be available for the delivery of the equipment as we have a time limitation of 5 days from day of delivery to report any damages. The main reason for this is that there is a very high probability for insurance coverage to not be denied, and after 5 days, the probability of a denial of the damage claim significantly increases. Purchasing insurance on a package does not mean there is a guarantee of the claim being paid by FedEx or UPS. This is why most places have a time limitation.

As Randy mentioned, the water really should be tested to make the best determination on which softener to purchase. In addition, be careful on some filtration systems, as too pure water (near distilled) will not allow the steam boiler portion to operate correctly.
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Postby bob47 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:07 pm

Thanks for your comments Randy and Jim.

The City Water Superintendant has provided the following analysis of the water as it leaves our city's Treatment Facility:

The values are an Average of monthly values he provided for 2010:
pH 9.00
Alkalinity 20.2
Hardness 112
Chloramine 3.7
Fe 0.01
Turbidity 0.1
TDS 312

He says the pH and Chlorine will dissipate some in the distribution system. It would appear hardness is close, the alkalinity is lower and the TDS is higher than the optimal values for espresseo I found on pages in this forum (100, 50 and 150 respectively).

I have two questions with respect to these numbers:

First, do you think the water arriving at my home is close to these values, or should I have an analysis done at the house?

Then, if I can assume these numbers are close to what I have at the home, can I conclude from them which of the softeners I should use (1st Line's Inoxdep Rechargeable Water Softener or Everpure's Claris system)?

Thanks - Bob
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Postby Randy G. on Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:06 pm

I would highly recommend spending a few hours reading through Coffee Geek water link Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ.
From the figures you posted I would have to do so as well to give an educated answer.

The TDS reading seems high (312? a typo?), but I do not know what that means since it is so far from the Hardness number. I think my hardness and TDS numbers were pretty close (within about 5%). As I understand it, The difference between the hardness and alkalinity would indicate that there would be a reasonable and manageable amount of scaling. The softener system that Jim sells would lower the hardness to about zero and I think a post-softener carbon filter will remove the chloramine (I think). Jim Schulman's Water FAQ addresses the PH levels in detail I think.
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Postby CausticGuy on Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:58 pm

Anyone have a short term home review of this machine? Thinking of upgrading from an HX.
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Postby Randy G. on Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:33 am

CausticGuy wrote:Anyone have a short term home review of this machine? Thinking of upgrading from an HX.

I am very pleased with mine. While like many (relatively) short run devices it had some teething pains, but I think these have been taken care of at the factory. The espresso is amazing. STORY: I was doing quite well for the first few weeks, then, somewhat suddenly, the espresso quality fell off. I raised the temperature setting of the PID a few degrees, and things are better than they were originally.. Why? I don't know. It could be that I changed my source of green (but that would be difficult to discern as I was mixing old an new for a while), but to me, it doesn't matter. The fact that it is so easy to manipulate the brew temperature and the consistency that the machine delivers combine to offer excellent espresso.

Mine is plumbed and I always manually preinfuse and I think that goes a long way towards consistency as well as quality. The design of the E-61 group from VBM makes maintenance very simple (see my cam lube video on my website). It took 3½ minutes to remove, lube, and replace the cam, and I was talking through the entire process without a script.

NEGATIVES: there are numerous metal-to-metal contact areas between the outer shell and the frame, and these can tend to be noisy in operation. I put some thin, vinyl, furniture bumpers in various places and that took care of about 90% of that. If you don't plumb the drip tray you will be emptying it every session. I use a 3 gallon plastic water bottle under the machine in the cart. It can easily go a week with regular, or even heavy use of the machine (if I wish) before it needs to be emptied.

I have my review and a follow up on my website. I should add a bit more in the next week or two. The owners manual is available online at http://espressocare.com/PDF-Files/DDManual_DRAFTvD8.pdf
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Postby cafeIKE on Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:24 pm

Randy G. wrote:STORY: I was doing quite well for the first few weeks, then, somewhat suddenly, the espresso quality fell off. I raised the temperature setting of the PID a few degrees, and things are better than they were originally.. Why? I don't know.

Winter?
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