Londinium I - domestic lever espresso machine with commercial group

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
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Londinium Espresso
Posts: 192
Joined: 15 years ago

#1: Post by Londinium Espresso »

Those of you who have been following this pantomime for a while will recognise that we have had the original thread split, and from this post on it sits here in the 'Marketplace' section of HB, rather than the forum as it really belongs here i think.

For those of you who have just stumbled across LONDINIUM I and are wondering what it is all about you should pick up the story fairly quickly even if you start at this post.

In essence we've taken the best commercial lever group we know of, without sitting down and designing a new group from scratch, and built a machine around that to meet what we think a home user needs to make espresso every bit as good as the very best cafe you know of, coupled with ease of use & consistent results, not just a great shot now & then.

In our world of short product life cycles we're also concerned about fit, finish, simplicity of service & repair, and longevity, so I hope you'll appreciate our efforts on this front too.

some images taken by Glenn Watson of Coffee Photography -

hoping to get a clip showing the machine in action soon

unscrew the 4 stainless hex screws on top and you're in

we've put the pressurestat right at the top so you don't burn yourself reaching in around pipes - been there, done that with other machines

we've adjusted the punch pattern on the drip tray, as highlighted in an earlier post in this topic
(yes, you are right, in an ideal world it would have a wire drip tray, but i can't justify the tooling cost at this stage - i made the decision that it was preferable to keep the price low - i want this machine to be as accessible as possible. if in 12 months it has sold as well as we expect we will most likely make that investment - it gives the best drainage, but the wires need to be close together if cups are to be prevented from tipping when you place them on it in a hurry - something I've always found annoying)

the body work is all stainless unlike some lever machines costing a lot more

the subframe is zintec (the trade name of a galvanised steel product, used for washing machines and automotive components), which has received a carefully applied black powder coat over the top - when you lift the drip tray you will be able to see the quality of the finish for yourself

there is no unprotected mild steel (i.e. not galvanised & then powder coated) anywhere in the machine. anywhere.

for the pure silence of the lever experience that we want as many of you to enjoy as possible get the no pump, no tank, plumbed in option (it also means the top of the machine isn't corrupted by punching a hole in it to access the tank)

if you've got an expensive granite bench that you don't want to drill holes in, you want to move the machine around with you, or you have obscenely low water pressure (less than 1.5 bar), revert to one of the tank options














...split from New domestic lever espresso machine with commercial group by moderator...
...for historical purposes, moved from Marketplace to Lever Espresso Machines by moderator...

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peacecup
Posts: 3649
Joined: 19 years ago

#2: Post by peacecup »

Amazing photos - I have L1 envy...
When you need something near the scale of a commercial machine with every means known to science to control temperature, et voilá.
Actually, the mass of the commerical group is not necessary to easily control overheating with a pressurized lever. The decoupled group-boiler design of the Sama Lusso is very effective at minimizing overheating, while at the same time the thermocouple loop avoids over-cooling when idle. It is a very effective on-all-day design. I suppose the Bezzera Family and Olympia Club work as well. These designs are quite well-adapted for the number of espressos made in a "typical" household situation, that is one can make 10-20 espressos without refilling.
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

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donn
Posts: 271
Joined: 16 years ago

#3: Post by donn »

[Re price of Caravel vs. value.]

It's like looking at the price of an old Faema commercial, to decide what kind of price makes sense for your Londinium, because arguably it does the same thing. It might be worth more, or less, but the difference isn't because of functional comparison.

Vintage stuff is a different market. On one hand, cost of production is irrelevant - the people who earned a living building this product are probably long dead. On the other hand, cost of ownership includes various terms that are somewhat speculative and don't figure so much for warranteed new production. If I used my ancient Zerowatt 5 times daily, how long would it last? What then? There are the intangible attractions of old stuff vs. new stuff.

Vintage prices are volatile and don't really depend directly on the real world facts - cost of production, or actual merits of the machine. Which is more useful and which will cost you more, a Caravel or a Gaggia Gilda? If the bloom is off the La Peppina these days, maybe it's worthless; in a few months, it could be priceless if the word spreads that it's like no other machine in its unrivaled capability. The mechanisms that determine price for an ES2 come from a completely different world.

That doesn't mean that for an individual, it can't be an A or B choice between ES2 and Caravel, and the existence of an inexpensive alternative sure could affect the ES2's price if it were being developed as a business proposition (which I gather it isn't really.) But I think the old machines are really more complementary than competitive - they preserve and foster a cultural niche for this technology, making it practical to develop new production to serve it.

How many of us are there? Are they all here on this forum? Well - indeed how many people need a lever machine of any sort? For me, the key point is that the lever machine world is rediscovering this idea and finding out that it works, and now we're seeing some new production for the first time in generations. Will it go anywhere, or always be an über niche product? Well, who knows, but it sure seems to be going somewhere at the moment!

jonny
Posts: 953
Joined: 13 years ago

#4: Post by jonny »

Long story short: comparing L1 to vintage domestic levers (like La Peppina, Caravel, Cremina, La Pavoni, etc.) is completely irrelevant. Besides the incorporation of a lever and the fact they both can make fine espresso, we are talking two completely different beasts. Both are nice but each has it's place. A devoted commercial lever user will not fully understand the desire for a dinky vintage domestic lever and a devoted domestic lever user will not fully understand the need for a beastly commercial lever like this. It's like saying are pickup trucks or commercial rigs better. The answer? Yes. Each is good for something different. It's not just about price. If you've been around these forums long enough, you know it's never just about price!

I do hope more manufacturers will follow in step with Londinium and bring back the lever in more forms. I would love to see La Peppina come back with updated materials and preferably without an astronomical price tag (thinkin' much less than a new Cremina or ES2). Again neither will replace the other.

So who's going to get an L1 in Portland so I can come play!? :D

redpig
Posts: 260
Joined: 12 years ago

#5: Post by redpig »

Londinium Espresso wrote: hoping to get a clip showing the machine in action soon
Can't wait!
Londinium Espresso wrote: we've adjusted the punch pattern on the drip tray, as highlighted in an earlier post in this topic
(yes, you are right, in an ideal world it would have a wire drip tray, but i can't justify the tooling cost at this stage - i made the decision that it was preferable to keep the price low - i want this machine to be as accessible as possible. if in 12 months it has sold as well as we expect we will most likely make that investment - it gives the best drainage, but the wires need to be close together if cups are to be prevented from tipping when you place them on it in a hurry - something I've always found annoying)
For earlier adopters, will this be an upgrade option if it happens later?

And while I'm posting :) , did the in-tank filter+softener make it into the final machine?

The L1 is looking excellent. My Cellini will need to find a new home, it seems!
LMWDP #411

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Londinium Espresso (original poster)
Posts: 192
Joined: 15 years ago

#6: Post by Londinium Espresso (original poster) »

Will

1. Yes, there would be no obstacle to retro-fitting a wire grill. While they are more practical, I don't think they look as good, and if you are like me and tend to move the espresso cup slightly as the extraction begins the gap between wires can tip an espresso cup, which is really annoying
2. Yes, water filter-softeners will be included - they just push on to the intake in the bottom of the water tank

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Bob_McBob
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#7: Post by Bob_McBob »

If I were buying a Luxe, I would swap that vac breaker for a barbed fitting/hose ASAP to keep the interior finish as pretty as possible.
Chris

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Spitz.me
Posts: 1960
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#8: Post by Spitz.me »

jonny wrote:Long story short: comparing L1 to vintage domestic levers (like La Peppina, Caravel, Cremina, La Pavoni, etc.) is completely irrelevant. Besides the incorporation of a lever and the fact they both can make fine espresso, we are talking two completely different beasts. Both are nice but each has it's place. A devoted commercial lever user will not fully understand the desire for a dinky vintage domestic lever and a devoted domestic lever user will not fully understand the need for a beastly commercial lever like this. It's like saying are pickup trucks or commercial rigs better. The answer? Yes. Each is good for something different. It's not just about price. If you've been around these forums long enough, you know it's never just about price!

I do hope more manufacturers will follow in step with Londinium and bring back the lever in more forms. I would love to see La Peppina come back with updated materials and preferably without an astronomical price tag (thinkin' much less than a new Cremina or ES2). Again neither will replace the other.

So who's going to get an L1 in Portland so I can come play!? :D
Well said...

Reiss, can we get more shots of the machine that aren't up close? I want to see some shots of the whole machine from different angles.
LMWDP #670

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Londinium Espresso (original poster)
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#9: Post by Londinium Espresso (original poster) »

sure, its a good idea. if i take them they won't look anything like glenn's work however - it will be very much point & shoot.

here's a very rough one from my laptop, which is still probably too close



here's the standard model sitting on the floor


note that in the image below it is not sitting at the back of the bench, which is why it appears to come to the very front of the bench. if we placed it further back it would sit nicely back from the front edge of the bench, indeed any bench


two of a kind:

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Carneiro
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#10: Post by Carneiro »

Reiss, I think I've read somewhere that on the Londinium I you are using the one spring configuration. That's translated in how much pressure, start to finish of the shot? If the buyer wants the two spring even without the balast, he can have it?

Márcio.

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